I am not usually this slow

[Alfisti]

but for the utter life of me I cannot get my head around the whole catalogue thing. I made the monumental decision to move my images 'up' on my folder tree and now all my folders and images are 'missing', they still display but all have a nice juicy '?' near them.

a) I am sure it is very simple but how do I get LR to figure out where the images are now? I keep being asked to locate them so i click on th enew location and it says it's already there ..... well in that case they are not missing are they mr Lightroom?

b) I really, really want to love this program as it potentially solves a lot of problems for me re. workflow but the software just does not like to use the folder tree as a reference, it keeps wanting to use a catalogue for some reason. Why was it designed like this? i am sure there is a good reason but it baffles me, you'd think that so long as it recognises the xmp sidecar files there is no need for a 'catalogue' at all .... just refer to the folder tree.

 

[Mark Sirota]

Are you right-clicking on the top-level folder that's missing in Lightroom, and choose "Find Missing Folder...", and navigate to the new folder?

If not, can you be more specific about exactly what you're doing? A screen shot of your Folders panel might be helpful.

Another approach is to move everything back the way it was, then make the change within Lightroom. But if that's difficult for your situation, I'm sure we can make this work.

 

[fware]

May be I should release my little software to to such changes directly in the DB/lrcat file.

Yes, LR stores the path to the files in the DB/lcrat file and now you get the "missing" icon shown. Official way is the "Find Missing Folder.." way, I change it in the DB if required.

And yes, there is a verry good reason to use a DB and NOT to work only with local XMP files. But getting this explained here would be tool long for a post. Its on speed and other things you can only do with a DB at the backend....

 

[dj_paige]

I really, really want to love this program as it potentially solves a lot of problems for me re. workflow but the software just does not like to use the folder tree as a reference, it keeps wanting to use a catalogue for some reason. Why was it designed like this? i am sure there is a good reason but it baffles me, you'd think that so long as it recognises the xmp sidecar files there is no need for a 'catalogue' at all .... just refer to the folder tree.

The whole point of a database/catalog, such as Lightroom or Photoshop Elements, is to give you a much broader set of tools to manage, organize and find your photos than you have in either the Windows or Mac operating system. Using keywords, star ratings, colors, captions, metadata and collections, you will be able to do more things and search in more and faster ways than you can ever do with Windows or Mac folders. Basically, my advice is that you should from this day forward use the Lightroom tools, and stop using the Windows/Mac folders as an organizing tool.

 

[Alfisti]

Are you right-clicking on the top-level folder that's missing in Lightroom, and choose "Find Missing Folder...", and navigate to the new folder?

That is exactly what I tried, I then get a message "folder is already there" ... no joke it is, so why are you listing it as "missing"?

It's got me buggered frankly.

 

[Denis Pagé]

I made the monumental decision to move my images 'up' on my folder tree

Try to move it down the way it was. Then we will help you structure it the way you want.

 

[Alfisti]

My concern there is that you are suddenly running two file trees and you lose track of them. Your machine is now essentially managed by lightroom, so if I move a file for whatever reason Lightroom is now not able to find it and i lose my workflow advantages and i lose track of where the image is exactly. I just cannot fathom how it works, after reading the replies above i see why it is done this way but the practicalities of working with this system baffles me.

I guess what i am saying is, if i run a catalogue for LR and delete a photo is the image deleted from my windows file tree? Are my xmp changes added to the file tree?

Or, am i suppposed to delete my current windows file tree structure and just use the LR catalogue? Isn't this just another tree of files?

BTW I don't need the keywords or any of that type of identification system. What i really love is the opportunity to make changes with LR on my RAW files without needing to create a tiff to retain the changes and whenever I like i can delete some or all of the changes and i can spit out a range of jpg files for web, print etc all really easily. It feels like I am using layers ... without using layers

The whole point of a database/catalog, such as Lightroom or Photoshop Elements, is to give you a much broader set of tools to manage, organize and find your photos than you have in either the Windows or Mac operating system. Using keywords, star ratings, colors, captions, metadata and collections, you will be able to do more things and search in more and faster ways than you can ever do with Windows or Mac folders. Basically, my advice is that you should from this day forward use the Lightroom tools, and stop using the Windows/Mac folders as an organizing tool.

 

[Denis Pagé]

I guess what i am saying is, if i run a catalogue for LR and delete a photo is the image deleted from my windows file tree?

When you press "Delete" in Library, you habe three choices (buttons): "Delete From disk", "Remove" and "Cancel". "Delete from Disk" will also delete in your Windows file tree; "Remove" will only remove from Catalog leaving the image in the Windows file tree; "Cancel" well... is like if you didn't hit "Delete" in the first place.

Are my xmp changes added to the file tree?

Only if you enabled "Autowrite changes to XMP" in preferences or use Ctrl/Cmd+S on selected files AND those original files are in the raw format. For JPEGs, TIFFs and DNGs, changes are written in the file's headers but do not change the images they contain. If you do not enable in prefs and never use Ctrl/Cmd+S then, nothing is written out in files.

Or, am i suppposed to delete my current windows file tree structure and just use the LR catalogue? Isn't this just another tree of files?

WARNING! It seem that you misunderstood the meaning of "Import" in Catalog. In fact, Lightroom is importing nothing! It is just taking note of where the original file is by making an internal pointer to it. There is no second tree of files. Deleting your file structure after import will render Lightroom useless! NEVER EVER DO THAT!

 

[Mark Sirota]

It seem that you misunderstood the meaning of "Import" in Catalog. In fact, Lightroom is importing nothing! It is just taking note of where the original file is by making an internal pointer to it. There is no second tree of files. Deleting your file structure after import will render Lightroom useless! NEVER EVER DO THAT!

Another way of thinking about Import is "notifying Lightroom about the file", so it can help you keep track of it.

 

[dj_paige]

My concern there is that you are suddenly running two file trees and you lose track of them. Your machine is now essentially managed by lightroom, so if I move a file for whatever reason Lightroom is now not able to find it and i lose my workflow advantages and i lose track of where the image is exactly. I just cannot fathom how it works, after reading the replies above i see why it is done this way but the practicalities of working with this system baffles me.

No ... you are not running two file trees ... you are running one file tree, but you have two ways to manage it: Windows or Lightroom. If you choose to manage it in Windows, as you have seen, then your work is doubled, because then you have to go into Lightroom and notify Lightroom of the changes you made. Or, you could adopt the mental paradigm shift that I advised, and stop making changes to your file tree using Windows and use Lightroom as the exclusive mechanism to move your files, in which case your work isn't doubled. Again, the whole point of Lightroom is to overcome the limitations of the Windows file structure and give you much more powerful ways to organize and find your photos.

I don't know what your workflow is, nor have you stated your workflow advantages ... however, there is probably an equivalent workflow in Lightroom that has the same (or even more) advantages.

Or, am i suppposed to delete my current windows file tree structure and just use the LR catalogue? Isn't this just another tree of files?

Neither. You Windows file tree structure is what it is, you shouldn't do anything to it. Leave it alone and let Lightroom use it. Lightroom is not another tree of files. It is a database that points to your existing files.

I don't need the keywords or any of that type of identification system. What i really love is the opportunity to make changes with LR on my RAW files without needing to create a tiff to retain the changes and whenever I like i can delete some or all of the changes and i can spit out a range of jpg files for web, print etc all really easily. It feels like I am using layers ... without using layers

If you don't use keywords, you are missing one of the most powerful organizing tools in Lightroom. I know some people use Lightroom without keywords, which seems like buying a high-priced sports car and then only using the first 2 gears. Nevertheless, the choice is yours.

 

[Alfisti]

WARNING! It seem that you misunderstood the meaning of "Import" in Catalog. In fact, Lightroom is importing nothing! It is just taking note of where the original file is by making an internal pointer to it. There is no second tree of files. Deleting your file structure after import will render Lightroom useless! NEVER EVER DO THAT!

Actually that is what i always thought hence i never deleted my file tree. If it is just taking note of where the file is via an internal pointer, are you not therefore in trouble if you move files like i just did, it seems to bamboozle LR.

 

[Scott O]

To clarify, your images are kept in folders or whatever you set up in Windows. The file structure is based on Windows, and your files are kept in Windows. When you import into Lightroom, you are simply telling Lightroom where your images are located, nothing more or less. This is an extremely simple process so don't overthink it. The problem occurs when you make any changes to your files outside of Lightroom, like reorganizing using Windows Explorer. Lightroom can no longer find the files, hense the "?" symbol, and you have to use the "find" feature to have Lightroom relocate them. Once you have imported files into Lightroom, you really need to use the left panel in the Library Module to make any changes...

 

[Alfisti]

The problem occurs when you make any changes to your files outside of Lightroom, like reorganizing using Windows Explorer. Lightroom can no longer find the files, hense the "?" symbol, and you have to use the "find" feature to have Lightroom relocate them. Once you have imported files into Lightroom, you really need to use the left panel in the Library Module to make any changes...

and bingo was his name-o. Now i get it, make changes within LR and she figure sit out, use another file browser or windows and your'e buggered.

 

[Denis Pagé]

...are you not therefore in trouble if you move files like i just did, it seems to bamboozle LR.

Quite so! :shock:

Were you finally able to recreate your original structure to get rid of the question marks? If so, then just move the structure from inside Lightroom as you wanted it and the physical folders will also move in the file system but this time, Lightroom will know about it.

 

[Alfisti]

Quite so! :shock:

Were you finally able to recreate your original structure to get rid of the question marks? If so, then just move the structure from inside Lightroom as you wanted it and the physical folders will also move in the file system but this time, Lightroom will know about it.

Have not tried yet, i will just restore the old file path then make the move in LR and see what happens. Cheers.

 

[Denis Pagé]

... i will just restore the old file path then make the move in LR and see what happens. Cheers.

This is exactly what I suggested. Let us know how you succeed...

 

[Alfisti]

Never in my life have I found such basic software so hard to get my head around, I find Excel and CS3 easiere to get the hang of .

So I tried to put the images back where they were and it just wasn't having it so I re-imported. I did this once before and clicked on a setting so all the XMP files were read and my changes came to life. For two hours now I have been poking around the menu and I JUST CANNOT FIGURE IT OUT!

Someone put me out of my mercy, it's just killing me.

 

[Mark Sirota]

Hopefully you were trying to re-import into a new catalog, not into the same catalog.

Re-importing into the same catalog is almost never the right answer. If you learn anything from this thread, try to remember that -- don't re-import!

If you could give us a screen shot of your Folders panel, I'm sure we can help you work it out.

 

[Alfisti]

Screen shot is attached.

I deleted the old catalogue and started fresh but the XMP files are contained within my image folders. Last time i did this I clicked on a setting or a button or something and bang, in three seconds all my edits came to life.

Looking at the individual thmbnails you can via the little indicators that LR knows changes have been made but is not dispaying them for some reason.

 

[dj_paige]

If you deleted the old catalog, you may have deleted your edit history.

Lightroom has an option that lets you write the edits and metadata changes to the .xmp file. If you turned this on in your old catalog, then you should be seeing the edits you made when you re-import the photos into a new catalog. If you didn't turn on this option, then your edit history is in the trash can in that deleted catalog, and I hope you can retreive it.

The specific option you needed to turn on is:
Edit->Catalog Settings->Metadata->Automatically write changes into XMP

 

[Alfisti]

Gahh yeah I had that selected the first time I installed LR but not the second time. I still have my old catalogue saved elsewhere 'just in case' so I'll see what I can do with it.

In the end it's been a good thing as I only lost the changes on 1' images, if I had thousands i'd have a heart attack.