How much sharpening?

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ernie

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I can't decide just how much sharpening to do. I've read about capture sharpening, output sharpening, etc. and I understand the principals. But just how much capture sharpening should one try to do? Just a little, a fair amount, or as much as you can stand. I know all of that is very subjective, but what are your opinion?
Maybe also, what numbers do you use. On most things (I don't shoot portraits or weddings) I seem to end up at 25 clarity, 6' amount, and 5' detail. How does that compare to others?
 
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Sharpening is a very subjective adjustment. Images with fine detail will require different sharpening than portrait where you want smoother skin. Images that have considerable noise will suffer more from the sharpening process, etc. There really isn't a one size fits all sharpening technique. The sharpening in LR helps bring the image in line to regain some of the detail lost during the capture process and not really to achieve the final output sharpness. Probably the best explanation of the sharpening controls in LR I have seen is Jeff Schewe's demonstration in the supplement edition to the 1.2 update from the Luminous Landscape Light Room Video Tutorials. In my opinion, well worth the price invested.

That said, I think there a re a couple of sharpening presets, available in the develop module, one for portraits and another for landscapes that I find will get you in the ball park very easily.
 
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Yes, as I said, I know it is a subjective thing. I believe I have read Jardine's tutorial, I've read so many things it's hard to keep straight who said what. I'm not looking for exact numbers to use for every image, I know it varies per image. But I've noticed that while playing with the sliders I don't see much difference, if any, between middle settings of say 3' to 7' for amount. I posted what I seem to gravitate to as far as numbers and just was wondering what others do.
Is something like discussing ones salary--only talk in generalities, if at all?
 
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I just use the default setting in LR - It doesn't seem to do much, but I assume this is a small amount for capture sharpening?

I'm not fond of over sharpened images and I'd rather not cause permanent changes to a file at this stage, I'd rather do sharpening last, as the final output will dictate the amount needed.

As others have said, sharpening is a very personal thing, everyone seems to have their own ideas...
 
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Thanks Kevin. Trying to figure out a good philosophy for sharpening is tricky. For the longest time we've all been told don't sharpen til the last thing. Now it's capture sharpening is best and then do final sharpening for output. But how much capture sharpening vs final sharpening? Should we do a lot up front so there's little to do at the end, or do just a little up front and do most of it at the end, or somewhere in between??? Ain't this all so much fun!!??
 
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egd5 said:
Thanks Kevin. Trying to figure out a good philosophy for sharpening is tricky. For the longest time we've all been told don't sharpen til the last thing. Now it's capture sharpening is best and then do final sharpening for output. But how much capture sharpening vs final sharpening? Should we do a lot up front so there's little to do at the end, or do just a little up front and do most of it at the end, or somewhere in between??? Ain't this all so much fun!!??
Click to expand...

Fun... oh yes! - I think the problem with any PP work, particularly with sharpening is there is no right or wrong way of doing it, it's the end result that matters.
I don't make any changes to the so called 'capture sharpening' - I just use the default settings in LR, which I believe is a very mild sharpen to help get over the softening effect of the Anti-alias filter over the sensor on a DSLR.

I did see an article on someone who actually removed this AA filter and the results were sharper, but did start to display various edge artefacts and moire patterns etc.

I also find it depends on the lens I use as well - If I use my Canon 135L I need hardly any sharpening at all, so every shot is different sometime.
 
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George Jardine's tutorial isn't something you'd have read; it's something you might have seen. It's a video podcast and well worth viewing as it gives you some visual sense of what's happening along with the instructions.

As for statements that sharpening doesn't seem to do much, effects will vary by photo, but typically aren't visible in the usual viewing mode. For starters, you should be zoomed in to at least a 1:1 view of the image (2:1 or 3:1 works better) and you should hold the Option key while moving the sliders, as the Option view will give you a much clearer idea of what the slider is doing.

Hope that helps some.
 
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Now that you describe it, I have seen that podcast, although it's been a while. I downloaded Matt K's presets and he even sharpens more. I felt that they were a little high for me though.
And that's kinda my point/question-one person sharpens a little, one a lot. I know Kevin's right, all that matters is the final result, but I'm just trying to get a feel for what several folks are doing.
 
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My standard practice -- for ease and simplicity -- is simply to apply one of LR's sharpening presets to each image as I work my way through, processing my photo pile. Then, later, if I'm sending an image out for whatever reason -- client, printing, etc. -- I'll revisit that image individually and adjust the sharpening to what I feel is an appropriate level for that image. When I get down to sharpening individual images, I don't follow any rule; each image demands its own, customized sharpening settings. But every other photo in my library, and most of my photos that hit the web make do with LR preset sharpening applied. Not saying it's the best practice, but I don't have the time to sharpen hundreds or thousands of images individually, as photography isn't (yet) my full-time profession, but more of a sideline to a million other things.

Mind you, I've achieved Guru status here for my work relating to the LR Web module, and not for my development practices. You might do well to follow someone else's example. ;)
 
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I always thought that the sharpening in ACR was pretty awful, but it has gotten much better in recent versions. Now I usually leave the sharpening at the default(25,1,25,') or slightly softer for most images. If I'm going to be retouching a pic, then I disable the sharpening in LR and apply it in Photoshop after the image has been retouched.
 
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This is just the type of discussion I was hoping to start-not hard and fast rules, but I do this...Ido that...
Rcannonp, how do you turn off JUST the sharpening? Is it with the little square box thing in the upper left corner? I knew that turned it off and on so you could see the effects, but didn't think about leaving it off thereby cancelling any sharpening.
 
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egd5 said:
This is just the type of discussion I was hoping to start-not hard and fast rules, but I do this...Ido that...
Rcannonp, how do you turn off JUST the sharpening? Is it with the little square box thing in the upper left corner? I knew that turned it off and on so you could see the effects, but didn't think about leaving it off thereby cancelling any sharpening.
Click to expand...

I just set the sharpening amount to '. I guess that you could click the enable/disable box, but I often use the noise reduction settings and clicking the disable button would disable those settings as well.
 
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Just set to '---makes sense. I hope it's truely ' and not the "almost '" like the noise reduction mess in 1.1. :-)
 
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