Heirarchical keywords sorting/exporting issue

[Paul_H]

Lightroom Version Number

6.14

Operating System

1. Windows 10
2. macOS 10.14 Mojave

Hi all,
Any advice would be appreciated: Lightroom 6.14 on Mac & Windows, but issue also apears in CC2022 running on a friends machine:-
I have heirarchical keywords organised under parent keywords. The parents are within underscores (eg: _VEHICLES_) on the basis that I read somewhere that using the underscores prevents them from being exported while still exporting the contained keywords. (Cannot find the source document to link to).
For example:
_Transport-Vehicles_ >Cars>Supercars>Ariel Atom should export only as Cars>Supercars>Ariel Atom when only selecting Ariel Atom from the keyword list.
_Transport-Vehicles_ is not selected to "include on export" - Cars, Supercars & Ariel Atom are all selected to "Export containing keywords"
With raw files copied to another location, then imported to the catalogue, it seems to work as expected (presumably because of the sidecar xmp's?); BUT I've just noticed that ANY file actually exported from Lightroom does not take the keywords with it, even though the rest of the metadata (captions, gps, dates, etc.) does show.
It only works if the top level _keyword_ is also set to "include on export", which defeats the object of the underscores for purely viusal housekeeping of the list.
Have I missed something, or is the original article incorrect?

 

[clee01l]

Underscore has nothing to do with whether the keyword will export or not. There is a setting in the keyword parameters that can keep a keyword from being exported.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Califdan]

I read somewhere that using the underscores prevents them from being exported

Fake news.

As @clee01l mentioned, each KW (be it parent or lowest level) has a set of 3 parpameters (checkboxes). One check box tells LrC if whether this particular KW name (the text in the "Keyword Name" field) will be included in the export. The second one tells LrC whether or not it should also look at the check marks on the parent keyword to to decided if info from that parent should also be exported. And, the 3rd one tells LrC whether or not the synonyms should be included.

There is also a sub panel in the Export dialog that must be set to allow keywords to export at all - regardless of the checkbox settings on each KW

 

[Califdan]

It only works if the top level _keyword_ is also set to "include on export", which defeats the object of the underscores for purely viusal housekeeping of the list.
Have I missed something, or is the original article incorrect?

Using underscores or anything else you desire in the KW name does provide a visual clue in the Keyword panels as long as that visual representation is kept in sync with the checkboxes. I spell it out

 

[Philippe Coudé du Foresto]

Underscore is sorted before any letter in alphabetic order. Hence adding a underscore in front of a keyword makes it appear before other keywords at the same level.

 

[Paul_H]

A belated thank you for those replies - sorry late acknowledgement.
I'm familiar with those mentioned options. Perhaps I could have worded the question more effectively:-
I have found that if the parent keyword does NOT have "Include with export" checked BUT "Export containing keywords" IS checked, then still none of the sub level keywords export into the new file. The only way I get sub keywords included is to also check the top level one for inclusion - that defeats the object of having them visually separated for sorting purposes though.

 

[Califdan]

I have found that if the parent keyword does NOT have "Include with export" checked BUT "Export containing keywords" IS checked, then still none of the sub level keywords export into the new file.

That is not my experience. The "export containing" checkbox either stops it from, or tells it to, look at the next HIGHER parent and has no effect on LOWER LEVEL KW's. Can you sen an example?

For determiing whech KW's export on any particular images starts at an explicltly assigened KW's (KW has check mark in the KW List when only that images is selected). For each of these, it includes or excludes that KW name based on the "Export this keyword" checkbox and includes or excludes tany synconyms bases on the checkbox for that action. Then (and only then) if the "Export containing" box is checked will it repeat that logic for the next higher parent. As soon as it hits one where the "Export Containing" is unchecked, it stops looking at higher level parents and then goes on to the next explicitly assigned KW.

Where some folks get confused is if they have explicitly assigned multiple KW's on the same image at different levels of the same hierarchical tree.

 

[Paul_H]

Many thanks @Califdan,
I think you've hit right on it there with your first sentence: I hadn't realised I was misinterpreting the "export containing" referring to the higher levels.
A quick test appears to confirm that. I'll go through multiple different keywords to verify.
Thanks again, much appreciated.