Library module Focus Distance not displaying on Nikon mirrorless (OK on DLSR)

[GeorgeKindt]

Lightroom Version Number

14.1.1

Operating System

1. Windows 11

In Metadata panel, under Default, then Customize you can add line items to the Metadata panel. Customize brings up a checkbox panel. Check what ever items you want in the Metadata panel. Check the box for "Focus Distance" (under Camera Info). The Metadata panel should have a line item "Focus Distance". Select an image from a Nikon DSLR/Lens, and the line item should have a value. Select an image from a Nikon mirrorless, and the field is blank. You can use "https://raw.pics.io/metadata-viewer" to verify that the image has Focus Distance in the image meta. Or use ExifTool if you are comfortable using it.
Displaying D90, D300s, or D500 and various lenses shows a value for "Focus Distance"
Displaying Z6II, Z6III, or Z9 and various lenses does not show a value for "Focus Distance"
A Non-Nikon lens, or a non-CPU lens might not show this value, but all the Nikon DSLR combinations I tried worked, and all the mirrorless did not.

 

[John R Ellis]

Interesting, Focus Distance is the only LR Metadata-panel field that comes from the proprietary MakerNotes section of photo metadata rather than from industry-standard sections (EXIF, XMP, IPTC). Only four manufacturers have cameras that include Focus Distance.

LR only includes Focus Distance in the Metadata panel for some cameras from two manufacturers, Leica and Nikon, and all except two of those cameras date from 2018 and earlier. This strongly suggests that LR has never fully supported Focus Distance and it stopped including it for new cameras many years ago.

You could file a feature request to fully support it, but I very much doubt Adobe would act on it or even comment:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...w-do-i-write-a-feature-request/idi-p/12386378

Details

In my comprehensive database of sample raw photos (22 manufacturers and 289 camera models), only four manufacturers included MakerNotes: FocusDistance: Leica, Nikon, Olympus, and OM Digital Solutions. Notably missing are Canon, Fujifilm, and Sony.

Those four manufacturers had 66 camera models containing MakerNotes:FocusDistance, but of those, only 22 models showed Focus Distance in the Metadata panel:

Leica: M10 models, M11
Nikon: D3X, D5, D80, D200, D300, D500, D610, D750, D780, D810, D850, D3400, D3500, D5200, D5600, D7500

The newest of those models are the Nikon D780 (2020) and Leica M11 (2022). The rest of those models date from 2018 and earlier.

 

[KarstenG]

We have had an in-depth discussion in the German Olympus forum on this not too long ago, so I can contribute to this discussion

LrC offers to display the value of a "Focus Distance" field (which is part of MakerNotes as John stated) - but it actually displays something different. As an Olympus user of E-M5, E-M1 II/III and OM-1 I can also confirm that this field is always empty in Metadata panel.

However, there's an easy workaround to make LrC display this value. Run:

exiftool "-SubjectDistance<FocusDistance" FILE(S)

or (if you don't want backup files)

exiftool -overwrite_original "-SubjectDistance<FocusDistance" FILE(S)

This will copy the MakerNotes:FocusDistance tag to EXIFIFD:SubjectDistance tag - which can be selected as well in metadata panel and will be properly displayed by LrC.

And guess what - after running this exiftool command LrC does not just display the proper SubjectDistance but also the same value for FocusDistance (at least for OM-1, D600 and Z6 II). For these cameras (and probably many others as well, LrC's FocusDistance field in the metadata panel is actually mapped to EXIFIFD:SubjectDistance.

 

[Paul_DS256]

Check the box for "Focus Distance" (under Camera Info). The Metadata panel should have a line item "Focus Distance". Select an image from a Nikon DSLR/Lens, and the line item should have a value

For more value information check out the Focus Points Plug-in. It shows you the focus point plus DOF. Useful when diagnosing issues such as where was I focused.

The 1.26M value here is the same as the LrC Metadata.

 

[John R Ellis]

LrC offers to display the value of a "Focus Distance" field (which is part of MakerNotes as John stated) - but it actually displays something different.

I spot checked half-a-dozen photos of the cameras I listed above, and the Metadata panel displayed the same value for Focus Distance as shown by Exiftool:

Do you have examples where the Metadata panel's Focus Distance was different than shown in Exiftool?

 

[vbnut]

LR only includes Focus Distance in the Metadata panel for some cameras from two manufacturers, Leica and Nikon, and all except two of those cameras date from 2018 and earlier. This strongly suggests that LR has never fully supported Focus Distance and it stopped including it for new cameras many years ago.

In my comprehensive database of sample raw photos (22 manufacturers and 289 camera models), only four manufacturers included MakerNotes: FocusDistance: Leica, Nikon, Olympus, and OM Digital Solutions. Notably missing are Canon, Fujifilm, and Sony.

There are actually two different metadata fields that can be displayed in LrC's Metadata panel (as configured using Jeffrey Friedl's Metadata-Viewer Preset Editor): Subject Distance and Focus Distance. Based on what I've seen from exiftool, there are also two different MakerNotes metadata fields: FocusDistanceLower and FocusDistanceUpper. I don't know how LrC computes Subject Distance and Focus Distance, but in some cases it looks like they are close to the average of FocusDistanceLower and FocusDistanceUpper.

I see Subject Distance for some images from my Canon EOS 50D. On some images from my Canon EOS 7D I see both Subject Distance and Focus Distance, on others I see only Focus Distance, and on other others I don't see either (maybe based on the lens?). For (all?) images from my Canon EOS 7D Mark II I see only Focus Distance. For most images from my Canon EOS R3 I see only Focus Distance.

 

[KarstenG]

Do you have examples where the Metadata panel's Focus Distance was different than shown in Exiftool?

Yes, thousands! In fact, this applies to my entire LR catalog with images captured with Olympus E-M5 II, E-M1 II/III, OM-1.

For all these images, the same standard behavior is that for imported ORF files, neither FocusDistance nor SubjectDistance is displayed in the Metadata panel. Which is okay for SubjectDistance because ExifIFD:SubjectDistance tag is not just empty, it doesn't even exist in the original RAW's EXIF data. However, MakerNotes;FocusDistance tag has a value assigned.

After running exiftool "-SubjectDistance<FocusDistance" on an ORF and re-reading its metadata from file, both fields are displayed in Metadata panel. Since only ExifIFD:SubjectDistance got changed by exiftool for me there is no other conclusion that (at least for the cameras I have been using) LrC uses the value of ExifIFD:SubjectDistance to display FocusDistance.

See attached images to illustrate this.

 

[GeorgeKindt]

Thanks, guys. In a nutshell, Adobe is currently not supporting this function for the newer (Z-series) cameras. In the mean time, I can use one of the workarounds to get the info, as I do not need it very often, just for trouble shooting an image ("how come that's out of focus..."). I use several of Jeffrey Friedl plug-ins, but it appears that he is slowly retiring and not updating much.

Focus Points Plug-in does not recognize my Z6III (last updated in 2019). I should be able to set ExifTool up for just a few line items to get what I want.

I suspect that the ORF images are not the same as Nikon. In poking around on one image (Z65_2609.NEF) I find ExifTool shows 551 line items. There are 2 Nikon areas, (Nikon and Nikon Custom) that I believe are the MakerNotes. I can find "Focus Distance" (with the value of "6.49m") under the Nikon header, but no "Subject Distance". What I see under the ExifIFD header is "Subject Distance Range" (with the value of "Unknown"). This might explain why I do not see a value in "Subject Distance"

Oh, well, Thanks for the info anyway.....
G

 

[GeorgeKindt]

By the way, does any one know where the Metadata presets are kept in LRC? There is Default, All Plugin metadata, DNG, EXIF, etc in the dropdown window. (the one that is usually "Default")
Thanks

 

[KarstenG]

By the way, does any one know where the Metadata presets are kept in LRC?

If you open LR preferences, Presets tab under Location there is a button "Show All Other Lightroom Presets". This opens a folder with many entries where "Lightroom" is preselected. Following the selection, there is another long lists of folders, one of them is "Metadata". Which contains one file "DefaultPanel.lua" which represents my configuration of the default view.

 

[KarstenG]

I can find "Focus Distance" (with the value of "6.49m") under the Nikon header, but no "Subject Distance". What I see under the ExifIFD header is "Subject Distance Range" (with the value of "Unknown"). This might explain why I do not see a value in "Subject Distance"

This is exactly the same for Olympus / OM. The exiftool action I suggested above creates the SubjectDistance tag in the NEF file with the value of FocusDistance.

Focus Points Plug-in does not recognize my Z6III (last updated in 2019).

If you are interested in such a tool, I can recommend the open source plug-in Focus-Points. I guess it's a bit simpler, but it is still maintained to some extent (at least I do my very best). Unfortunately it's currently not working for Z7 III (it does for Z7 and Z7II) because there seems to be some issue with exiftool's decoding of AFInfo just for this camera. Need to check with Phil Harvey.

 

[GeorgeKindt]

If you open LR preferences, Presets tab under Location there is a button "Show All Other Lightroom Presets". This opens a folder with many entries where "Lightroom" is preselected. Following the selection, there is another long lists of folders, one of them is "Metadata". Which contains one file "DefaultPanel.lua" which represents my configuration of the default view.

OK, That one only shows the Defaults, which I can Customize... Do you happen to know where the rest of them are located? yes, there are about a dozen more listed on my system.
G

 

[KarstenG]

Do you happen to know where the rest of them are located?

Since you can't change all the others except Default I suspect the information is not accessible to users.

 

[GeorgeKindt]

This is exactly the same for Olympus / OM. The exiftool action I suggested above creates the SubjectDistance tag in the NEF file with the value of FocusDistance.


If you are interested in such a tool, I can recommend the open source plug-in Focus-Points. I guess it's a bit simpler, but it is still maintained to some extent (at least I do my very best). Unfortunately it's currently not working for Z7 III (it does for Z7 and Z7II) because there seems to be some issue with exiftool's decoding of AFInfo just for this camera. Need to check with Phil Harvey.

Karsten, This is the same as the old FocusPoint Plugin.. just a later date on it. (different website also) works on all my DSLR, but not on any Z series Nikons. Get : "Can't show this photo: Cannot display focus information for this photo. Reason: Currently cannot process this camera: NIKONZ6_3. Please select another photo."
Z6-2, z6-3, and z9 all get the same error. Not a ExifTool issue, as it works OK, and so do some other programs (not plug-ins).
G

 

[John R Ellis]

In fact, this applies to my entire LR catalog with images captured with Olympus E-M5 II, E-M1 II/III, OM-1.

Interesting. None of the samples I have from dpreview.com show Focus Distance -- I wonder if this does indeed depend on the lens.

Could you export sample images from these cameras as JPEGs and attach them here? I'd like to understand better what might be going on inside LR.

 

[John R Ellis]

In a nutshell, Adobe is currently not supporting this function for the newer (Z-series) cameras.

...and many other newer and older camera/lens combinations as well.

 

[John R Ellis]

EXIF:SubjectDistance and EXIF:SubjectDistanceRange are defined by the EXIF specification:

But most cameras in my database don't record it:

 

[John R Ellis]

The various focus-distance fields shown by Exiftool in MakerNotes are manufacturer-specific and aren't defined in any public specification. The ones currently known by Exiftool are:

Apple:FocusDistanceRange
Canon:FocusDistanceLower
Canon:FocusDistanceUpper
FLIR:FocusDistance
Leica:FocusDistance
Minolta:FocusDistance
Nikon:FocusDistance
Nikon:FocusDistanceRangeWidth
Nikon:ManualFocusDistance
Olympus:FocusDistance
Olympus:ManualFocusDistance
Pentax:MinFocusDistance
Red:FocusDistance
Sanyo:ManualFocusDistance

 

[KarstenG]

Karsten, This is the same as the old FocusPoint Plugin.. just a later date on it. (different website also) works on all my DSLR, but not on any Z series Nikons. Get : "Can't show this photo: Cannot display focus information for this photo. Reason: Currently cannot process this camera: NIKONZ6_3. Please select another photo."
Z6-2, z6-3, and z9 all get the same error. Not a ExifTool issue, as it works OK, and so do some other programs (not plug-ins).

George, you must have confused something. Both plug-ins have nothing to do with each other, the one on GitHub has no such error message.
A possible source of error is that both plugins share the same folder filename "focuspoints.lrplugin". If you want to co-exist them, you need to rename one of the folders. Another source of confusion is that both plug-ins are being invoked by selecting „Show Focus Points“ in to Library -> Plug-In Extras“, but in different sections of this menu. See attached file. I have highlighted the "old" one in red, the one I am referring to in this thread in green.

I have also attached a screenshot of a Z6 II image (downloaded from this review site) with visualized focus point. The current version of the plug-ins properly displays focus points for Z8 and Z9 as well, but currently only in case of contrast AF, not PDAF.

P.S.: Phil Harvey has responded to my question, whether there might be a problem in exiftool decoding of AFInfo2 information for Z6 III, asking for further information (sample images with known AF points and a sample for each different AF setting). In case I won't be able to satisfy his needs with images downloaded from the web and plus focus-point screenshots from NX Studio, would you be willing to support?

 

[KarstenG]

Could you export sample images from these cameras as JPEGs and attach them here? I'd like to understand better what might be going on inside LR.

Exporting images from Lightroom will remove all MakerNotes information. I will mail you a dropbox link with a few sample RAW images.

 

[GeorgeKindt]

I will pull some stuff together tomorrow. I do all images in RAW, not JPEG, but I think that LRC has options to export with ALL metadata.
I would attach a JPG, and zip, but this site says TOO BIG.
G

 

[GeorgeKindt]

Here is a text of the ExifTool for Z65_2609.NEF. seems you can not do ZIPs either.....
G

 

[GeorgeKindt]

FYI, I cannot find any Focus distance in the JPEGs using ExifTool. looks like it has to be RAW files.

 

[GeorgeKindt]

Karsten,
Focus Point is v 0.0.1.1, so it is the correct focus point plugin. On the Z9, doing Focus Point, gets Internal error:string MorgrifyUtils.lua: 103..... but will show Metadata OK, with Focus Distance value on the 3 images.

here is text files for ExifTool for Z6II, a Z9, and the Z6III. You can see that Focus Distance is in each one. LRC just does not display it, even if it is in the Customize panel. Adobe has a problem.
G

 

[KarstenG]

George,
support of Z50, Z6 and Z7 has been added early 2020, since then the plug-in has not been maintained with respect to further Nikon Z models. I'm currently working with Phil Harvey (Mr. Exiftool) to sort out EXIF-issues related to AFInfo sections for recent Z model , as well as doing plug-in updates. I'm confident that a new version of the plug-in will be available soon which will then support the entire Nikon Z lineup correctly.

As for getting LrC to display the FocusDistance in its metadata panel, the easiest way is to run

exiftool -overwrite_original "-SubjectDistance<FocusDistance" *.nef
It doesn't matter, if you do this prior to importing the files or later. When the have already been imported, you need to tell LrC to "Read metadata from file". I do it the same way.