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Files Deleted after export?

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jocab64

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Hello everyone,

Wish my first post was a little more positive, but such is life...

I just recently spent 3 days editing close to 13'' pictures in LR. I went to make some high quality jpegs by highlighting all the pictures and then using the export command like always. It started without a hitch so i figured i would leave it to do it's thing for a while. I came back shortly and to my suprise it was already finished exporting. So i went to the folder i had created and only 6'' of the 13'' pictures were there. Wierd i thought so I went back to lightroom to export the rest...

Now all of my originals are missing from the library. All the edits and versions I had made are gone. I couldn't find the original raw files anywhere until i looked in the trash can. Bingo they're they are, so not complete loss but like I said 3 days worth of editing down the tubes...

So my question ultimately is can I retrieve those changes I've made? I moved the files back from the trash can to their original location but LR, not suprisingly, did not find them. Is this a known issue? Can anything be done?

Thanks in advance.
Jake
 

Braders

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Thats a new one....in the trash can??

Welcome to the forums Jake.

Retreval will depend on whether or not you have access to the xmp changes made to the RAW files, and/or you have a viable catalogue

Few things.
1. System specs - mac/pc, nikon, canon (aka signature)
2. Export dialogue box - what were your settings
3. What type of RAW file, or were the images DNG.
3a. If DNG, what preference settings for preserving RAW file in it?
3b. If RAW, were the xmp files in the trash with them? Or, were they else where on your HD?
4. Did you have "auto write to XMP" on in the preferences? If so, then the catalogue .lrcat should have the work in there.
 
J

jocab64

Guest
1) iMac, 2.4 ghz, 1.5 gb ram - canon 4'D
2) export to a folder, long side to 2''', 2'' dpi
3) Raw .cr2 I believe (not at home right now)
3b) not exactly sure what the xmp files are, but all that was in the trash can was the .cr2's. Where are those usually located?
4) I definately don't know on this one. If it's on by default then probably, but if it's something I have to check before exporting, I don't remember ticking any boxes.

You'll have to forgive my ignorance on the last question. I did a little research on the catalog file last night and it seems as though I could get those changes back from a backup. Sadly I have learned the hard way about the backup catalog feature and that it should be turned on.

Let me know if I can provide some more info.
 

Braders

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jocab64;2'132 said:
1) iMac, 2.4 ghz, 1.5 gb ram - canon 4'D
2) export to a folder, long side to 2''', 2'' dpi
3) Raw .cr2 I believe (not at home right now)
3b) not exactly sure what the xmp files are, but all that was in the trash can was the .cr2's. Where are those usually located?
I would recommend reading this white paper by Peter Krogh
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/non_destructive_imaging.pdf

It explains very well the concept of RAW and xmp files and also DNG.

When the RAW file is changed in any way (color, WB, tonecurve etc) these changes are stored in small data files (.xmp). Usually, these small data files are stored next to the RAW file in your folder structure. Do you see any of these?


4) I definately don't know on this one. If it's on by default then probably, but if it's something I have to check before exporting, I don't remember ticking any boxes.

While in LR go to Library preferences and find the 'Automatically write changes to XMP' Is it ticked.

You'll have to forgive my ignorance on the last question. I did a little research on the catalog file last night and it seems as though I could get those changes back from a backup. Yes, but you should still have and the main catalogue file called .lrcat in your HD some where.

Sadly I have learned the hard way about the backup catalog feature and that it should be turned on.

Let me know if I can provide some more info.
Are you running LR from a convential computer setup on your C/drive?
 
J

jocab64

Guest
I do still have the main catalog file that is stored in /pictures/lightroom. I tried to restore from that file but the images are still missing. My hope was to restore an older version of the catalog file but I don't have one. Just to clarify, all my other folders and images are in the correct location and have their current adjustments applied except the folder I tried to export.

When i recovered the files from the trash can, only the .cr2 files were there; no .xmp files were with it. I can assume this is because 'automatically write changes to xmp' was unchecked?

Yes I'm running LR on a standard setup, from my primary drive. No scratch disc, partitions or external drives are involved. I import directly from my camera into a new folder in my directory /pictures/lightroom library/folder that is created by LR during the improting process.
 

Braders

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Location
Perth, Australia
jocab64;2'18' said:
I do still have the main catalog file that is stored in /pictures/lightroom. I tried to restore from that file but the images are still missing. Can you be a bit more specific - i presume you got them out of the trash? Did you re-import them via LR import or place them back into the folder they belonged via your mac folder structure?

My hope was to restore an older version of the catalog file but I don't have one. Just to clarify, all my other folders and images are in the correct location and have their current adjustments applied except the folder I tried to export.

When i recovered the files from the trash can, only the .cr2 files were there; no .xmp files were with it. I can assume this is because 'automatically write changes to xmp' was unchecked? Then, the only way to save the changes is manually in library --> save metadata to file. If you did not do this, then i think i am correct in saying that xmp data files were not generated for each image. Therefore, the only plave you can find the changes you made are in the lrcat.

Yes I'm running LR on a standard setup, from my primary drive. No scratch disc, partitions or external drives are involved. I import directly from my camera into a new folder in my directory /pictures/lightroom library/folder that is created by LR during the improting process.
There has been issue with importing from the camera. Not sure thats an issue. Maybe someone els could jump in here.
 

Brad Snyder

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I've been following, but not sure I have anything to contribute.

I'm on Windows, so I was waiting for a Mac person to jump in. While I can think of a lot of things that could have gone wrong, I can't imagine anything that would put the files in the trash can.

Jocab said:
I moved the files back from the trash can to their original location but LR, not suprisingly, did not find them.
Actually, that is surprising. Can you still see previews of the images in your library/catalog? Given the symptoms that you describe, i.e. original image files moved to trash can, LR should have still been able to show you the image thumbnails, and in fact allowed you to work with the metadata portions of the files. It would have stopped you from adjusting the images, and complained that they were missing. Restoring the image file to their original location should have fixed the problem. (If in fact, the missing image files were the only problem.)
 

Mark Sirota

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Lightroom may not notice that the files have moved until you restart Lightroom. (There are other ways to trigger LR to take another look at the disk, but restarting is the easy one.)
 
J

jocab64

Guest
Brad Snyder;2'195 said:
I've been following, but not sure I have anything to contribute.

I'm on Windows, so I was waiting for a Mac person to jump in. While I can think of a lot of things that could have gone wrong, I can't imagine anything that would put the files in the trash can.

Jocab said:

Actually, that is surprising. Can you still see previews of the images in your library/catalog? Given the symptoms that you describe, i.e. original image files moved to trash can, LR should have still been able to show you the image thumbnails, and in fact allowed you to work with the metadata portions of the files. It would have stopped you from adjusting the images, and complained that they were missing. Restoring the image file to their original location should have fixed the problem. (If in fact, the missing image files were the only problem.)
When all of this happened I looked at the folder in my Library and all the images had been wiped out. The folder counter showed ' and the thumbnails were gone. Initially I just dragged the photos back from the trash to there original location and restarted LR. LR however did not recognize the photos and I have since reimported them into the same folder, which also didn't trigger LR.

It's begging to look like this was just a fluke accident, possibly operator error on my part. After doing some of the suggested research it looks like this sort of thing could be avoided in the future by using DNG where the metadata would actually be stored in the original files so the possibility of losing the edits would be minimized. I that a correct assumption? Any tips?

Thanks to all who have responded thus far
 

Mark Sirota

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jocab64;2'2'2 said:
When all of this happened I looked at the folder in my Library and all the images had been wiped out. The folder counter showed ' and the thumbnails were gone.
Is it possible you were just looking at a new/different catalog? That wouldn't explain how the files got into the trash, though.
 

Brad Snyder

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Yes, either DNG, or storing XMP sidecar files with your raws, would help circumvent this kind of problem. In fact many people do just that, for just that reason, myself included.

And be very consistent about backups.
 
J

jocab64

Guest
To Mark:
I guess it is possible, but i doubt it. The only catalog file i could find was my current one and I had not been making backups along the way.

To Brad:
Which would you suggest, raw + xmp or dng? I'm at a point where it wouldn't be too much work to convert my existing images to dng. Is there an advantage to having the two pieces (raw + xmp) seperate? Seems to me like having 2 seperate files would only lead to more problems.

Thanks for all the help
 
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If they're in the trash AND missing from Lightroom, that would suggest that you may have accidentally selected them in Lightroom, pressed Delete, and told it to send them to the trash. Or perhaps marked as Rejected and then Deleted Rejected Photos. I've never heard of that happening on its own, sorry! But welcome to the forum!

With regard to DNG vs. XMP, there's 2 main factors:

1. Do you like having 2 separate files? I find XMP sidecars useful for transferring easily, but a single DNG file may be easier for some to track.

2. Do you ever need to open the raw file in the manufacturer's own software, as most manufacturer's (if not all), won't open DNG files.
 

Brad Snyder

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jocab, DNG vs. raw/XMP is subject to a lot of debate. Might just as well ask Mac vs. PC (vs. Unix). Victoria more or less sums it up in two notes.

Here's a lengthy thread we had here a few months back.

Raw vs. DNG
 
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