External edit changing capture time

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WorkingClassHero

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When I'm editing and send a photo out to edit in either Photoshop or a plug-in such as Nik Silver Efex, the capture time on the .tiff file created is changed, and then when it's reimported to LR and stacked with the original, it's at the end of the series, rather than it's original spot (sorted by capture time).

Anyone have any idea why this is happening and if it's possible to fix it? TIA.
 
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Have you checked your Sort order? If I change my sort order from Capture Time to Added Order then I can replicate your scenario, but leaving it at Capture Time and the edited tif appears next to the original raw file.

In the Metadata panel on my 2.6 installation I see 3 date/time combinations: DateTimeOriginal, DateTimeDigitized, DateTime. For the original raw and newly created tif, DTO and DTD are the same (which is where I guess "Capture Time" is sourced), only DateTime are different....on the raw its the same as DTO and DTD, on the tif its the date and time that I created it by using Edit in Photoshop...
 
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Definitely sorted by capture time. DateTimeOriginal and DateTimeDigitized as well as capture time are all wrong. Interestingly it's changed by exactly 6 hours. The only thing I can think of its that its something to do with the time difference between where I shot them and where I am now, but that seems a bit odd.
 
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Not sure we are on the same page regarding our terminology here! :)

No matter....as I understand it, "Capture Time" equates to DateTimeOriginal and not the DateTime field, and if DTO is being changed on an "Edit in" operation on the created file, that would certainly explain why the tif is not being placed alongside the original image in the grid/filmstrip if you are sorting on Capture Time.

There my knowledge ends, as I do not know why LR is creating a tif file with a different DTO from the original....that certainly does not happen on either of my computers, and consequently I can't explain it. We need a guru to step in here....

Intrigued by the 6 hour shift though. Any chance you could attach a screenshot of the relevant dates metadata of both an original file and the generated tif?
 
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Alan
We have had this before and I'm sure someone with a better memory than mine will step in!!
I do know that there are as many ways to deal with dtg (date time groups) as there are image applications and, additionally, some cameras have the facility to 'set time' as offset from GMT whereas other cameras you just have the facility to change the base time when going to another time zone. This is further complicated by summer time offsets and our computers which only have global time settings based on their locations.
I also know that the 'new' standards for xmp include something on this so the future looks a little more rosy.
I am almost certain your issue is to do with one of your apps taking the dtg for Date time Original (which will include, for example, 'Z+6.''') and comparing that with your pc time and making the changes. ('Z' denotes GMT)
 
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What are you seeing with the original file and the TIFF if you use a program like EXIFtool to read the metadata in both files? There are 6 relevent Date fields in the metadata header of the image file if viewed by EXIFtool.

FileModifyDate: In File Section not limited to image files. Acted on by OS anytime the file is changed
ModifyDate: EXIF Date Can be changed by LR and/or PSE In the TIFF, it should be the time from the computer when the TIF was last saved by PSE. (Shows up in LR Metadata panel)
DateTimeOriginal: EXIF Section (Not easily changed)
CreateDate: EXIF Section should be the same as DTO
DateTimeOriginal: XMP Section (Should be same on both RAW and TIFF files) The time recorded by the camera on the RAW file and transferred to the TIFF [color=#ff''''](Shows up in LR Metadata panel)[/color]
DateTimeDigitized: XMP Section (Should be same on both RAW and TIFF files) [color=#ff''''](Shows up in LR Metadata panel)[/color]

[color=#ff'''']I [/color]just used the Edit-in option to create a TIFF file for PSE and the above results are reported as expected. In LR the TIFF file is stacked with the original DNG. The only date differences between the DNG and the TIFF in on the Modify date as you might expect.
 
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The DTO and DTD are changed. I've experimented with a few files taken in different locations and time zones, and on different bodies. In every case, the .tif file's DTO and DTD are different, and by different amounts. Sometimes 3 hours, sometimes 6 and up to 21 hours. Even with shots I've taken localy in the last few days, where I know my camera and computers clocks are the same.

Not sure what is causing it, but it's really annoying when the files end up all over the place.
 
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Are you using exiftool, as suggested, to view the changes? If so, can you send the output of "exiftool -G -s" for the original and edited file? (You could just show us the differences, or just the time/date fields, to make it more concise.)
 
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Clee and Mark, this is from a shot I took yesterday extracted from exiftool - camera and computer time are the same.

I haven't used exiftool before and I'm not very familiar with command line tools, but this is what a -g shows. .tif is 21 hours ahead of the .cr2

.cr2 file
from exif section
Date/Time Original : 2'1':'3:25 16:'9:'2
Create Date : 2'1':'3:25 16:'9:'2

From Composite section
File Modification Date/Time : 2'1':'3:25 16:'9:'2+11:''
Create Date : 2'1':'3:25 16:'9:'2.17
Date/Time Original : 2'1':'3:25 16:'9:'2.17
Modify Date : 2'1':'3:25 16:'9:'2.17

Dont see DTD for the .cr2 file, although it does show up in LR as same as DTO

.tif file

File Modification Date/Time : 2'1':'3:26 18:27:34+11:''
Create Date : 2'1':'3:26 13:'9:'2.17
Date/Time Original : 2'1':'3:26 13:'9:'2.17
Date/Time Digitized : 2'1':'3:26 13:'9:'2.17+11:''

Thanks again for your help
 
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I don't have a Canon or a Mac, but your problem is probably related to the TimeZone setting on your camera, your Mac or both All the Timestamps are the same except for a Timezone adjustment. The (+11:'') suggests that you are running Exiftool on a computer located in a timezone somewhere off the East Coast of Australia. Is this correct?
My camera (a Pentax) allows me to set a "Home" time and one other World Time and I can switch between the two if I travel out of my local timezone. Does your Canon do this or something similar? How did you have the Camera set when you were traveling?

When you enter the "Change Date Time Settings" on your Mac are you showing the correct timezone for your location and does this account for the DST adjustment? (In the US we just started DST two weekends ago).
 
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I am in Australia, the +11 is the time difference to GMT. AFAIK, there is no time zone on the camera, (5D MKII and I've RTFM), and it was purchased in Australia. The capture time on the raw files is correct, and matches the clock on the mac. I could see if it was changed by 11 hours, but it's 21 hours.

The same issue happens with shots taken with other camera bodies, the capture times on the raw files are correct, but the edited files are wrong.

After doing some more testing, it doesn't seem to happen editing in PS, just in the Nik plugins I have, so maybe it's something peculiar to them and not LR related.
 
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[quote author=WorkingClassHero link=topic=9389.msg63564#msg63564 date=126959'999]
I haven't used exiftool before and I'm not very familiar with command line tools, but this is what a -g shows. .tif is 21 hours ahead of the .cr2[/quote]
Thanks. I usually use the -G and -s arguments, because then the section ("group") shows up on the same line as the tag, and the tag name is the real tag name, not a human-readable translation. But this is fine.

What I see here is in the raw file, the EXIF date/time stamps match the file time stamp. But (earlier versions of) EXIF don't include the time zone, so this is effectively local time.

The software writing the TIFF file is populating the EXIF data not with a direct copy of the original timestamps, but with one interpreted through a local time zone. It's effectively assuming that the values with no timestamps are UTC (Greenwich), but they're not. I'd consider this a fault of the software that's creating the TIFF file.
 
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Doesn't look like any simple solution, so I guess I'll either create the .tif in PS or manually edit the timestamp if I use another editor.

Thanks Clee and Mark for your help. Much obliged.
 
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Alan
Been a bit of a on-looker on this one but would be interested to here what your plug-in 'maker' has to say about this
 
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