Export Exporting without metadata includes metadata

[David Gordon]

Lightroom Version Number

13.5

Operating System

1. macOS 14 Sonoma

I have an ' export to hard drive' user preset which along with all my other requirements has, under 'metadata' , "Include: All Except Camera and Camera Raw Info".

So that strips out the camera, exposure etc etc detail from the EXIF but leaves everything else, copyright, caption, location etc in place. I can see that works in Photo Mechanic, the EXIF has been stripped.

But... when the pictures appear on Flickr, under the show EXIF as well as the expected and correct caption copyright etc I see

• Camera Profiles Camera Pretty Name - Fujifilm X-H2S
• Camera Profiles Camera Raw Profile - True
• Camera Profiles Focal Length - 24.2
• Camera Profiles Focus Distance - 10000
• Camera Profiles Lens - XF16-55mmF2.8 R LM WR
• Camera Profiles Lens Pretty Name - XF16-55mmF2.8 R LM WR
• Camera Profiles Make - FUJIFILM
• Camera Profiles Model - X-H2S

As far as I'm concerned that's EXIF data and if I opted to strip EXIF it shouldn't be included. It certainly counts as camera info so shouldn't be there.

How can I get it stripped out during export?

 

[John R Ellis]

Are you using the built-in LR Flickr plugin or Friedl's? Whichever you're using, try a test with the other.

 

[David Gordon]

Are you using the built-in LR Flickr plugin or Friedl's? Whichever you're using, try a test with the other.

Neither. I’m using the standard LrC export with my saved settings (size, file type etc), no plugins at all. I’m exporting to my Mac then manually uploading to Flickr.

I’ve since tried using Photo Mechanic’s tool for removing metadata to remove EXIF and that also leaves the camera profiles data in place.

 

[David Gordon]

An update:

Photo Mechanic allows various metadata stripping options. As well as EXIF it can strip XMP. Stripping XMP removes the Camera Profiles information. So good but that's not the way it should work as there will be other XMP fields I do not want removed.

Technically Adobe is doing what it say it is, but in effect some EXIF has been added to XMP so these data ought to be stripped as well.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

You might try Jeffrey Friedl's Metadata Wrangler plug-in to be really specific about what should and shouldn't be included. https://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/metadata-wrangler

 

[David Gordon]

You might try Jeffrey Friedl's Metadata Wrangler plug-in to be really specific about what should and shouldn't be included. https://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/metadata-wrangler

Yes, thanks, I used to use this plugin before LrC had the option to strip EXIF. It seems to have done the trick, albeit with much configuration. I'll need to take a proper look at the raw metadata before committing.

But I still say if LrC says its stripping EXIF it shouldn't be allowing EXIF data to be exported.

Thanks!

 

[Victoria Bampton]

But I still say if LrC says its stripping EXIF it shouldn't be allowing EXIF data to be exported.

Agreed, that would be worth reporting. https://www.lightroomqueen.com/send-bug-report-feature-request-adobe/

 

[Paul_DS256]

Going out on a limb here but would suggest you confirm the metadata exported from the JPG you are uploading by using a tool like EXIFTOOL. Exporting full metadata from LR6 shows that "Camera Profile" is part of the XMP metadata schema and not EXIF

$ exiftool -all -G test_meta.jpg | grep "Camera Profile"
[XMP]           Camera Profile                  : Adobe Standard

Also, I was concerned by "Camera Profiles Camera Pretty Name" which may be new, but may be a more user friendly name rather than the actual metadata tag name.
If I look for "Lens", this is what I find.

$ exiftool -all -G test_meta.jpg | grep "Lens"
[EXIF]          Lens Info                       : 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6
[EXIF]          Lens Model                      : 28.0-300.0 mm f/3.5-5.6
[XMP]           Lens                            : 28.0-300.0 mm f/3.5-5.6
[XMP]           Lens Profile Enable             : 0
[XMP]           Lens Manual Distortion Amount   : 0
[XMP]           Lens Profile Setup              : LensDefaults
[Composite]     Lens ID                         : AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

I suggest this because you likely need to show that the EXPORT from LRC contains the metadata you've asked to be exclude rather than what is showing in Flickr.

 

[David Gordon]

Exporting full metadata from LR6 shows that "Camera Profile" is part of the XMP metadata schema and not EXIF

Yes, its complex and I've noted the Camera Profiles XMP. It is this I'm having to get Metadata Wrangler to delete.

Sure, Camera Profiles is an XMP space. But where did the data there come from? Its EXIF data copied into the XMP. I'm specifically deleting EXIF so I'm expecting Adobe to honour that fully by not including EXIF data which has been moved to XMP.

I suggest this because you likely need to show that the EXPORT from LRC contains the metadata you've asked to be exclude rather than what is showing in Flickr.

Technically I haven't specifically asked LrC to remove any XMP but I don't want EXIF because that includes the following data which is in the exported JPEG.
<photoshop:CameraProfiles>
<rdf:Seq>
<rdf:li rdf:parseType="Resource">
<stCamera:Author>Adobe</stCamera:Author>
<stCamera:Make>FUJIFILM</stCamera:Make>
<stCamera:Model>X-H2S</stCamera:Model>
<stCamera:UniqueCameraModel>Fujifilm X-H2S</stCamera:UniqueCameraModel>
<stCamera:CameraRawProfile>True</stCamera:CameraRawProfile>
<stCamera:AutoScale>False</stCamera:AutoScale>
<stCamera:Lens>XF10-24mmF4 R OIS WR</stCamera:Lens>
<stCamera:CameraPrettyName>Fujifilm X-H2S</stCamera:CameraPrettyName>
<stCamera:LensPrettyName>XF10-24mmF4 R OIS WR</stCamera:LensPrettyName>
<stCamera:ProfileName>Camera Settings</stCamera:ProfileName>
<stCamera:SensorFormatFactor>1.531929</stCamera:SensorFormatFactor>
<stCamera:FocalLength>11</stCamera:FocalLength>
<stCamera:FocusDistance>10000</stCamera:FocusDistance>
<stCamera:ApertureValue>4.33985</stCamera:ApertureValue>
<crlcp:PerspectiveModel rdf:parseType="Resource">

From a JPEG where I've asked to delete camera data. This is the information which then appears in Flickr.

EDIT I'm just noticing my request is to include all data other than "Camera & Camera Raw Info". So its not a case of this not being EXIF data. All camera data should not be included in the export whether EXIF or XMP.

Agreed, that would be worth reporting. https://www.lightroomqueen.com/send-bug-report-feature-request-adobe/

I will. However my experience of reporting issues, getting support from Adobe means I'd prefer a good slap with a wet fish.

 

[John R Ellis]

I wasn't familiar with the XMP photoshop:CameraProfiles, so poked into it. It stores copies of the lens profiles embedded in raw files from newer cameras like the Nikon Z 6 II and the Fujifilm X-H2S, for which the manufacturers have given permission to allow LR to disable the application of those profiles. Such profiles are labeled "Camera Settings" in the Lens Corrections panel:

Embedded lens profiles that the manufacturers don't allow to be disabled appear in Lens Corrections like this:

 

[John R Ellis]

I think that XMP photoshop:CameraProfiles properly counts as "camera info" for the purposes of Export and should be (but isn't) excluded from exported files when the option Include: All Except Camera & Camera Raw Info is selected. Reverse engineering reveals the following de facto definitions of these Export categories:

Camera Info: The camera make, model, lens and all the various exposure settings.
Camera Raw Info: All the fields representing Develop settings.

So the lens profiles stored in XMP photoshop:CameraProfiles clearly falls under Camera info -- lens profiles provide detailed information about the camera lens used to make the exposure (and lots of other camera information as well).

It would be good if you filed a bug report about this, documenting the behavior for future reference. I think it's very possible that the product team will pronounce the behavior "as designed", which they often do for long-existing as-coded behaviors that are obviously wrong but that no one has complained about before and they implicitly view as low priority.

 

[Paul_DS256]

Sure, Camera Profiles is an XMP space. But where did the data there come from? Its EXIF data copied into the XMP. I'm specifically deleting EXIF so I'm expecting Adobe to honour that fully by not including EXIF data which has been moved to XMP.

I don't agree. The EXIF metadata standard has no Camera Profile tagging. It's only the XMP metadata standard that does. See tag definitions at EXIFTOOL. Much simpler than downloading each of the standards

Technically I haven't specifically asked LrC to remove any XMP but I don't want EXIF because that includes the following data which is in the exported JPEG.

From a JPEG where I've asked to delete camera data. This is the information which then appears in Flickr.

And I think that's where I'm confused since LrC does not use the STCAMERA schema. I think you may find it beneficial to list what the metadata is that LrC produces and not what Flickr reports. I suspect Flickr may be manipulating some of the fields which doesn't help unless you can find it in the original export JPG from LrC.

 

[John R Ellis]

See my previous two posts about how LR uses xmp-photoshop:CameraProfiles.

 

[David Gordon]

I think that XMP photoshop:CameraProfiles properly counts as "camera info" for the purposes of Export and should be (but isn't) excluded from exported files when the option Include: All Except Camera & Camera Raw Info is selected.

Thanks, I'm glad someone agrees with my view!

It would be good if you filed a bug report about this,

I will however, as I said above, I've played this game before and its not much fun.

I don't agree.

That's fine, probably down to my poor explanation.

And I think that's where I'm confused since LrC does not use the STCAMERA schema. I think you may find it beneficial to list what the metadata is that LrC produces and not what Flickr reports. I suspect Flickr may be manipulating some of the fields which doesn't help unless you can find it in the original export JPG from LrC.

If you have a look up you'll see I posted some XMP data. That came directly from a LrC expoted JPEG where I asked for 'Camera & Camera Raw Info' to be excluded. That JPEG hadn't been near Flickr, LrC exported it to my Mac, I opened it using Photoshop where I was able to read the XMP Camera Profiles data. I think I'm no longer bothered how these data got there, fact is I asked for details about my camera, lens, exposure etc not be included in the JPEG and there they are.

Of course this now feeds the FUD, fear, uncertainty and doubt. There are specific settings to exclude location for example. And there are more pressing reasons for hiding these then lens I used . This might be a matter of personal security - the address of a person at risk, the location of a confidential government office. As far as I know this information isn't being shared by me. Or is it?

 

[David Gordon]

I've 'reported' this at https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...o-being-included-in-jpeg/m-p/14815152#M376159

Would be nice if anybody who can reproduce my issue jump in and say so!

 

[John R Ellis]

Did you originally post it in Bugs? It's currently in Discussions, which would be part of Adobe's normal workflow for handling bug reports -- it gets moved to Discussions, the product team is asked to weigh in, and if the product team acknowledges it's not "as designed" behavior, an internal bug report is filed and it gets moved back to Bugs. (This process ensures that the Bugs section contains only reports acknowledged by Adobe as bugs.)

If you originally posted it in Discussions, I'll bring it to the attention of the appropriate Adobe person.

 

[KarstenG]

Would be nice if anybody who can reproduce my issue jump in and say so!

I can understand your point and I can reproduce this behavior and confirm it's the same on Windows.

Just for curiosity:
Which kind of information do you want people to see on Flickr under "Show EXIF" if you're not willing to reveal camera info?
Typically, it's all or nothing (i.e. EXIF data hidden).

 

[David Gordon]

If you originally posted it in Discussions, I'll bring it to the attention of the appropriate Adobe person.

Yes, sorry, my mistake. Busy trying to follow the correct procedure and look what happens! If its possible to get this to where it should be, thank you.

 

[David Gordon]

I can understand your point and I can reproduce this behavior and confirm it's the same on Windows.

Just for curiosity:
Which kind of information do you want people to see on Flickr under "Show EXIF" if you're not willing to reveal camera info?
Typically, it's all or nothing (i.e. EXIF data hidden).

Thanks for the confirmation. If you are able perhaps you could add a post at the Adobe discussion (linked above) to confirm my issue is a bug.

As @johnrellis points out in his reply to my post at Adobe, Flickr's use of the term 'EXIF' is common and informal. It seems to me to mean any and all metadata present in the image which includes EXIF, IPTC and XMP. What I expect to see is everything other than EXIF. So the full caption is shown along with all the location fields, creator details, copyright and rights terms. These are not EXIF fields but Flickr presents them when you 'Show EXIF'. It has worked correctly for me in the past but the inclusion of 'Camera Profiles' XMP has messed it up.