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Exporting Soft-Proofed Image

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kitjv

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I recently sent an image to a print lab (ProDPI) for printing as I have many times in the past. This time the actual print came back much darker than the soft-proofed image. The only thing that I might have done differently with this image was failing to uncheck the Soft Proofing checklbox in the Develop module prior to exporting the image to my Desktop. Might that be the reason why the print came back dark? BTW, my display is calibrated. Thank you for your help!
 
No, that cannot be the reason. Soft proofing only changes how the image is displayed on screen. It does not change the image or the edits, so it also does not change the exported image.
 
The Image sent to ProDPI may have had requirements and an embedded Color Profile. Often they will require sRGB and an 8 bit JPEG file. This is IMO the worst file to print as the JPEG is lossy and the sRGB Color profile is the smallest color envelop. The tech at the printer may massage their own rendering of your image and that is how I would suspect the darker image was produced. I'd send it back to the printer and explain that their rendering did not meet your specifications or the spftproofed image on your screen,
 
My guess is that you may not have exported with the profile that you used for soft proofing?
 

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Thank you for the clarification. I can't help but suspect that somehow I erred in uploading the image to the lab. Johnbeardy's comment is possible;though not likely. I did speak with the lab & they graciously will re-do the image at no cost. Nevertheless, I would still like to figure out what went wrong.
 
ProDPI’s file requirements:
“File Format & Resolution
Prep your work for printing by saving a high-quality JPEG for uploading. All files must be tagged with a color profile, ideally AdobeRGB or P3, but anything in the RGB colorspace will work. We do not support embedding any other colorspaces (like CMYK). We’re currently unable to accept TIFF, PSD, PDF or RAW files for printing.

We print most products at 300 DPI or higher, so in general we recommend uploading the highest resolution file you have and we can take care of resizing your image to accommodate the final print size. In most situations we don’t recommend using tools like Photoshop to artificially scale up your file to add extra pixels that weren’t in the original capture.”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
If you imagine that you were going to print on your own printer/paper, you'd soft proof to that particular profile and then you'd send it to the printer with it too.
 
I indeed follow ProDPI's file requirements when uploading images. Also, ProDPI provides their printer/paper profile that I use for softproofing.
 
But did you specify the profile in the export dialog box, as shown before? If not, they're going to try to print the image matching what you would have seen soft proofed in sRGB (assuming it's a JPEG).
 
But did you specify the profile in the export dialog box, as shown before? If not, they're going to try to print the image matching what you would have seen soft proofed in sRGB (assuming it's a JPEG).
Forgive me for being a bit dense, could you please clarify this for me? Are you referring to Lightroom's export dialog box? If so, I don't see any provision for specifying ProDPI's printer/paper profile. Thank you.
 
Forgive me for being a bit dense, could you please clarify this for me? Are you referring to Lightroom's export dialog box? If so, I don't see any provision for specifying ProDPI's printer/paper profile. Thank you.
As shown in my first reply, notice the "Other" - it should let you assign their profile.
 
As shown in my first reply, notice the "Other" - it should let you assign their profile.
Got it. Thank you. However, I need to check with ProDPI. They specify the "sRGB" be listed as the color space. They have made no mention of listing their profile instead.
 
So you've soft proofed (print previewed) using one profile, and sent it to them in another.
 
In LR, I soft proofed using ProDPI's printer/paper profile (i.e. Noritsu37_Luster_032908). Then prior to uploading the image to ProDPI's order form, I saved the image to my Mac's desktop using LR's export dialog box. As requested by ProDPI, I saved the image in sRGB.
 
In LR, I soft proofed using ProDPI's printer/paper profile (i.e. Noritsu37_Luster_032908). Then prior to uploading the image to ProDPI's order form, I saved the image to my Mac's desktop using LR's export dialog box. As requested by ProDPI, I saved the image in sRGB.
Actually they mention AdobeRGB and P3 specifically but will accept any RGB color profile. The sRGB profile is the least desired of the RGB color spaces.
From ProDPI:
“ All files must be tagged with a color profile, ideally AdobeRGB or P3, but anything in the RGB colorspace will work. We do not support embedding any other colorspaces (like CMYK).
 
Yeah, that’s a potential point of confusion: The soft proof profile does not need to be used for the file sent to the printer — this is how it generally works for many printing services.

The purpose of sending a customer the soft-proof profile is to let a customer’s application simulate/preview the printing conditions while the file is edited in a standard color space such as Adobe RGB, sRGB, etc.

Like many printers, they want to receive the exported file in that standard color space. The reason you don’t need to convert to the printer’s profile is that they’re going to do that at their end at print time. If the soft proof was done correctly, then everything should match up in the end.
 
Actually they mention AdobeRGB and P3 specifically but will accept any RGB color profile. The sRGB profile is the least desired of the RGB color spaces.
From ProDPI:
“ All files must be tagged with a color profile, ideally AdobeRGB or P3, but anything in the RGB colorspace will work. We do not support embedding any other colorspaces (like CMYK).
Ah, thank you. I was not aware of that. My oversight. I will confirm with them.
Yeah, that’s a potential point of confusion: The soft proof profile does not need to be used for the file sent to the printer — this is how it generally works for many printing services.

The purpose of sending a customer the soft-proof profile is to let a customer’s application simulate/preview the printing conditions while the file is edited in a standard color space such as Adobe RGB, sRGB, etc.

Like many printers, they want to receive the exported file in that standard color space. The reason you don’t need to convert to the printer’s profile is that they’re going to do that at their end at print time. If the soft proof was done correctly, then everything should match up in the end.
That has always been my understanding, Conrad. In the past, I have always sent the soft proofed image in the standard color space as requested by the lab. The prints have turned out fine. That is why I am perplexed this time when the print was considerably darker than the soft proofed version that I sent to the lab.
 
That is why I am perplexed this time when the print was considerably darker than the soft proofed version that I sent to the lab.
I think the reason the image was darker was because the technician at the Lab made it darker. A particular color space is the definition of a color envelope. All of the pixel colors included in the image generated will fit inside of the defined envelope. The largest envelope is ProPhotoRGB. This colorspace is used for computation by Adobe but little used outside of Adobe. AdobeRGB and Display-P3 have similar color space shapes . The brightness (Light/dark) is achieved by adjusting the exposure (in Lightroom). It has nothing to do with the colorspace used. A bright Green Pixel and a dark green pixel will reside inside the same colorspace.

Some modern screen displays have the capability of displaying a larger color space than sRGB. These will be advertised as Adobe RGB or in the case of Apple Display-P3 color space.

Colorspace is used to define the range of color for the image pixels. It is the display media that limits the colors displayed. A typical monitor can only display image pixels in the range of an sRGB color space. Paper and Printers have a wider gamut and can display pixels inside generic AdobeRGB color space. Specific Printer/paper combinations have display capabilities similar to AdobeRGB but the envelop can be tuned to s specific envelop (hence the soft-proofed color profile). The problem that needs to be resolved is how to treat pixel values that fall outside go the media capabilities If a color pixel falls outside the capability of the Printer/paper used, what color does the printer print on paper? The answer is the color closes to the pixel color that lies on the edge of the envelope. The result is a blotchy, muddy print where a different color was used than was in the image file. By choosing a color profile for the file generated, you are limiting that colors of all of the pixels in that file to fall inside the defined color profile. sRGB is the smallest (least rich) color envelope and by choosing it you are forcing the image to conform and display in typical screen limits (sRGB) and well inside the generic Printer/paper limits.
 
Cletus: I appreciate the explanation. Since the darker print was an aberration (compared to past prints I received from the same lab), I tend to concur that the lab tech made it darker.
 
If I may ask one additional (albeit, remedial) question......

After I finish soft proofing an image, should I uncheck the Soft Proofing checkbox before exporting the soft proofed image to the print lab? Or does it make any difference at all? Thank you for your patience.
 
If I may ask one additional (albeit, remedial) question......

After I finish soft proofing an image, should I uncheck the Soft Proofing checkbox before exporting the soft proofed image to the print lab? Or does it make any difference at all? Thank you for your patience.
I might add that the lab say to uncheck the soft proofing checkbox. Nevertheless, I value the expert opinions on this forum. Thank you.
 
I might add that the lab say to uncheck the soft proofing checkbox. Nevertheless, I value the expert opinions on this forum. Thank you.
Despite of what they say: it does not make any difference. Of course you can try it yourself. Export two copies, one with and one without that box checked. Then compare the two copies...
 
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