Easier reorganize keywords

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Joop Snijder

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I have a lot of keywords (22''+) within my keyword set and it's hard to reorganize them. Drag-and-dropping will result in fast scrolling keyword list.

Also with keywords that are assigned to many images the performance gets slow.
 
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It can be very difficult to reorganise keywording, but at least once it's done you don't need to do it again.

Use the Advanced Search and search for 'Keywords' and user name 'PatrickC' to find the threads relating to the traumas I went through! Now it's done it actually works quite well, though I'm still not a fan of hierarchical systems.

Patrick Cunningham
 
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I'm sure everyone has keyword categories that they use to organize subsets of keywords, without wanting to export those with the images. For example, I use 'Geography' to include keyword subsets like 'North America, Florida, Key West.' But I don't want to export 'Geography' as a key word.

I understand that you can right-click on a keyword and choose not to export that keyword with the image. However, give us a visual clue in the keyword list regarding whether a keyword will be exported or not. Perhaps show non-exporting keywords in brackets, e.g. [Geography]. Or, show non-exporting keywords in a different color.

Without this type of feature, as I understand it, you need to right-click every keyword to determine its synonym / no-synonym / export / non-export status.

In addition, it would be great to access a datatable so that you would scan all keywords simultaneously, see the synonyms, see how they are categorized, and make global changes to the data table (vs. right-clicking through 2,''' keywords).
 
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I agree with the suggestion. Many folks use a convention of ALL CAPS for non-exporting keywords, but that's just a work-around.

Oh, and welcome from me, as well, karlbuhl.
 
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karlbuhl;42'4' said:
In addition, it would be great to access a datatable so that you would scan all keywords simultaneously, see the synonyms, see how they are categorized, and make global changes to the data table (vs. right-clicking through 2,''' keywords).
Click to expand...

You can pretty much do this by exporting your keywords to a text file. The text file can, with care, be edited outside of Lightroom and reimported. I'm not on my Lightroom machine right now, but the export is under the Metadata menu, I think it's Keywords>Export as text file or something similar.

Unfortunately, when you use this method, it won't reassign existing keywords to the reorganised structure when you re-import your text file, so using this method does entail some reorganisation after anything but the most basic rearrangement.

I'm not sure what would happen if you just change the status of a keyword to 'don't export', but I suspect LR will retain your existing keywords under a separate 'does export' keyword tag.

At least the exported keyword text file gives you something which enables you to scan through your hierarchy much more easily to find stuff you want to change. Probably the best solution is a compromise; use the text file to find changes but implement them in LR.

I use the ALL CAPS convention for non-export keywords, but the idea of colour or some other in-built method of identification is excellent. Did you put in a request? If not, please do so.

Patrick Cunningham
 
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PatrickC said:
I'm not sure what would happen if you just change the status of a keyword to 'don't export' (in the external file).
Click to expand...

This doesn't work, I remember testing this, while trying to solve a problem from a thread a couple of months ago.
 
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PatrickC said:
...

Unfortunately, when you use this method, it won't reassign existing keywords to the reorganised structure when you re-import your text file, ...
Click to expand...

Well, that's my main issue. There's no way of easy reorganisation and Lightroom only adds new keywords. In Lightroom it's pretty awkward and outside Lightroom it's too limited to reorganize the keyword hierarchy and the individual keywords.

I like the suggestion of visual feedback for keyword settings.
 
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Interesting, I was about to post a separate query in this area, but I think I have got my answer from the posts above. I have been using Lightroom 2.4 and have a hierarchy of keywards established. However, I am now starting to use Photomechanic for ingesting and initial rating and keywording - using the keyword list exported from Lightroom.

When I then synchronise the relevant folders in Lightroom, any keywords added to the images appear as new additions to the hierarchy - which then leads to the need to move them about and delete duplicates within Lightroom. I think I have tried every alternative setting for the XMP sidecars, etc, and cannot make Lightroom use the existing Keywords instead.

Any one else found this.. and/or found a solution..?


John Clifton
Photographer in North Yorkshire
 
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That cross-application (as well as cross-computer) problem is exactly why I avoid hierarchical keywords.

John
 
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Does Photomechanic use a delimiter to separate hierarchical keywords? Microsoft uses "/" to separate hierarchcal keywords for embedded metadata in Vista and Lightroom can be configured to recognize it. I don't know if it works when importing raw with xmp sidecars or not.
 
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Hi Ken

Yes, I have tried chaging the delimiter to various different options. I can get Lightroom to import new Hierarchies of keywords that I have added within Photomechanic, but it will not recognise that they already exist wihtin the current structure. So you allocate a path in PM which you know exists in LR, and when you sync in LR the whole hierarchy has been applied as a new string, instead of the pre-existing keyword being alloacted to the image.

Thanks for the thought, though.

John Clifton
A Nikonian in North Yorkshire
 
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Importing hierarchy is problematic when considering the issue of preexisting keywords. Suppose for example, I have the keyword 'spring'. If I import a keyword set that has the hierarchy WEATHER-SEASONS-SPRING and then import another that has the hierarchy, WATER-SOURCES-SPRING and then import another that has the hierarchy OBJECTS-MACHINES-SPRING. Spring now exists in four places-three under specific hierarchy and one loose at the top level. To which does the top-level map? Maybe the keyword Spring was meant as a verb and has a synonym of "jump". You can see the issue. I think I would rather be able to select the top-level Spring and hand paint or mark up the images to ensure they end up in the right place than to have Lightroom sort the intricacies of the language.

All that having been said, it is a pain to organize within the Keyword list pane. I would far prefer that a dedicated editor applet would allow you to jump out of the interface and edit, consolidate, etc, and then come back in, remembering what images had what keywords and keeping them connected.
 
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Thanks Rick, I will bear that in mind. It hadn't occured to me that there might be the same keywords used in different ways at the same hieararchical level within the same thread. Either way, I have found the solution to my problem - via a post made by another PM user in their support forum.

So for anyone else in the same situation, the way to solve it is to go to the structured keyword panel in PM. Here there is an option box to set what delimiting character is used between levels in a hierarchy. By default this is set to '|' - which is perfectly readable by Lightroom.

However, as a default the character is preceded by a space - as in ' |'. Because of this Lightroom does not recognise the keyword as being the same one it already has in its keyword list, and generates a new one. So if you go into the option box and delete the space, your keywords are only separated by the delimiter character, and LR recognises them fine - slotting them in to the approriate levels in the existing hierarchy when you read data from the XMP sidecars.

Hopefully this will help anyone trying to set up a system where everything talks nicely to everything else..!

John Clifton
A Nikonian in North Yorkshire
 
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