Library module Each new collection adds sequence number to file name

[lyn]

Lightroom Version Number

Lightroom Classic CC 7.3

Operating System

1. Windows 7

Since the most recent update, everytime I put a file into a new collection Lightroom adds a sequence number to the file name.

After I import from a memory card I put all the new photos into a collection then edit out and remove the shots I don't want. I then make several collections from the keepers (Selects, Archive, To be Processed etc.).

Now each file in the first collection has -1 added to the file name: _xxxxxx-1.NEF

Each subsequent collection renames the files again: Selects collection files are _xxxxxx-2.NEF

Archive collection files are _xxxxxx-3.NEF and so on

If I send the files to Photoshop, the sequence number is attached to the .psd or .tif file.

Is there any way to (1) stop the sequential numbering and (2) remove the sequence number from the files that have been renamed?

Thanks!
Lyn

 

[Rob_Cullen]

"Collections" are only virtual 'lists' of the 'original' photos that are stored in folders on your Hard-drive.
Placing a photo in a Collection does not re-name a file in any way.
There must be something in your import procedure that is re-naming files.
Can you explain your Import method with more details?
And are you talking about Collections in the LR library, or Folders in the Folder Panel?

It is possible to create Virtual Copies when you create a Collection from selected photos, but these will show as xxxxx.NEF-Copy1 xxxx.NEF-Copy2, etc but not actually re-name the original file.

Another thought- Are you doing a file Export in any way. for a sequence number to appear?

 

[lyn]

Thanks for your reply. Here's my import workflow:
I import RAW files (mostly NEF and ARW) directly from the memory card into Lightroom by clicking Import and selecting my memory card as the Source and choosing Copy and the destination for the files. I build Standard Previews and Smart Previews and make a second copy to an archive drive, I apply a metadata preset and sometimes a develop preset, use Organize by Date and do not rename my files or convert to dng.

When the import is complete, I make a new collection set (eg "New Import Set"), select all the imported files and use Library>Create New Collection to create a new collection (Full Test Import) inside New Import Set. Up to this point the files retain their original names _XY0001.NEF, _XY0002.NEF and _XY0003 as they always have.

I go through the full import and flag rejects and keepers and delete the rejects. I then either duplicate the collection, rename it Test Import Selects and remove the unflagged photos, or I create a new collection with that name and drag the flagged photos into it. I have tried it both ways with the same result: the photos in the Test Import Selects collection are renamed _XY0001-2.NEF, _XY0002-2.NEF and _XY0003-2. If I go to the folder in the library, there is only one file with the original name (without the appended sequence number) but all the photos in the Selects collection have the appended sequence and if I take the photo into Photoshop or export the photo the psd and exported photo have the appended sequence number (_XY0001.-2.psd).

When I go through the same process to create Web Export Test Collection the files in that collection are renamed _XY0001-3.NEF, _XY0002-3.NEF and _XY0003-3 etc and the sequence number shows up in my web gallery. The same is true if I export the files to the hard drive or for email.

I am not making virtual copies and the files show a sequence number not NEF_Copy 1 etc. I am simply selecting the photos and either duplicating a collection or creating a new one and dragging the selected files into the collection or using keystroke B to add to the target collection. The folder still shows the original imported files with no added sequence numbers except for psd files which have the sequence from the collection it came from. I tried removing the -2 designations in my selects collection by hand and the next collection added -3 even though there wasn't any -2 files left.

I've used the same system since Lightroom 2.0 and this is the first time I've had sequence numbers attached. I even created a brand new catalog without changing any preferences and imported from a memory card with the same result. It is driving me crazy! Am I the only person this has happened to? Thanks for taking a look at this -- it creates a real mess in a large catalog.

Lynne

 

[Rob_Cullen]

I have read your last post several times and I cannot understand how the added number suffix might be occurring.
It does not seem possible.
"The folder still shows the original imported files with no added sequence numbers " This is to be expected unless you deliberately do a re-name action.
So the same files added to a Collection must show the same filename- but you are seeing something different- crazy!
Can you attach some screen-clips that illustrate your problem- we might get a better idea visually by seeing what you see.

 

[Laura Smith]

If I go to the folder in the library, there is only one file with the original name (without the appended sequence number) but all the photos in the Selects collection have the appended sequence

What do you see when you look at the folder in Windows Explorer rather than in Lr's folder panel? Multiple copies of each file? One copy of each with the original name? One copy of each with the new name?

 

[Laura Smith]

I go through the full import and flag rejects and keepers and delete the rejects. I then either duplicate the collection, rename it Test Import Selects and remove the unflagged photos, or I create a new collection with that name and drag the flagged photos into it.

Also, that's quite a few steps between Everything-Being-Okay and Crazy-Impossible-Stuff-Happening. Might be worth doing each of these things one at a time and checking the filenames between each tiny step and see what the last thing you do is before the filenames change. None of the steps should cause what you're seeing, as I-See-Light said, so it's worth checking in between every step, even if it shouldn't be relevant!

 

[lyn]

What do you see when you look at the folder in Windows Explorer rather than in Lr's folder panel? Multiple copies of each file? One copy of each with the original name? One copy of each with the new name?

Thanks Laura -- In Explorer I only see the original photo without a sequence number, but psd and jpg files all have the sequence. Lightroom isn't duplicating the photos and is not making virtual copies -- it just adds the sequence number in each new collection.

 

[Hal P Anderson]

Lyn,
Try this: right-click on one of the images with the name that ends in '-1' and choose Show in Explorer. Do you get taken to the same folder that the original photo is in? If not, where do you see the photo? Lightroom won't show a name in its catalogue that doesn't exist on disk somewhere (unless that file is listed as missing).

 

[lyn]

I have read your last post several times and I cannot understand how the added number suffix might be occurring.
It does not seem possible.
"The folder still shows the original imported files with no added sequence numbers " This is to be expected unless you deliberately do a re-name action.
So the same files added to a Collection must show the same filename- but you are seeing something different- crazy!
Can you attach some screen-clips that illustrate your problem- we might get a better idea visually by seeing what you see.

Here are the screen shots. The workflow on this set was a little different. The photos were for a Lr user who wanted the entire shoot to play around with and wanted dng files (normally I don't convert, but I converted these during import as you can see in the screenshot of the first collection (Prom 2018).

In the screenshot of the second collection, not all of the files show the -2 sequence because I started to remove it using the metadata panel. All the images in the Selects collection had the -3 added even if I had removed the -2. Very strange since I created the third collection after I removing the -2 in some of the files. I included a virtual copy to show that it includes both the sequence and the copy-1 in the name.

 

[lyn]

Lyn,
Try this: right-click on one of the images with the name that ends in '-1' and choose Show in Explorer. Do you get taken to the same folder that the original photo is in? If not, where do you see the photo? Lightroom won't show a name in its catalogue that doesn't exist on disk somewhere (unless that file is listed as missing).

Yes -- there is only one file for each RAW file and it does not contain a sequence number. The psd files contain the sequence number but there are no duplicates there either.

 

[lyn]

Also, that's quite a few steps between Everything-Being-Okay and Crazy-Impossible-Stuff-Happening. Might be worth doing each of these things one at a time and checking the filenames between each tiny step and see what the last thing you do is before the filenames change. None of the steps should cause what you're seeing, as I-See-Light said, so it's worth checking in between every step, even if it shouldn't be relevant!

I was trying to explain fully and that's why it sounds like there are so many steps -- it is really a quick and simple process and I've been using it for years: Import and put all the photos in one collection. Go through and flag or reject being generous on the flags. Usually I just delete the rejects and don't make the second collection for review but this entire shoot and edit was for a new Lr user who wanted to see an entire editing process so I left the rejects in the first collection and made a second "To Review" collection containing flagged and unflagged photos.

I'm generous on flags during my first quick review but don't include anything I would show and let someone else choose their favorites. I just unflag the ones I'm not going to edit Make a collection of selects that I will edit and use. I have two collections (not three as in this case): flagge

 

[lyn]

Yes -- there is only one file for each RAW file and it does not contain a sequence number. The psd files contain the sequence number but there are no duplicates there either.

Also, since all of this is for someone else, the entire thing is on a separate hard drive and is the only thing on that hard drive so it is easy to see that there arre no extra files. When I plugged the drive into my laptop where there was nowhere else that copies could be lulrking on other drives, there were no missing files found on synchronize files or find missing files. The sequence numbers only exist in the collections, not on the drive.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

Lyn, EDIT: You beat me with your last post!!
Can you open File Explorer and show us a full clip of all the files in the folder 2018-04-21 ?
I want to see the file names in this folder (not with Lightroom)

When you Import photos into the catalog, are you selecting specific photos for each Collection at the time of Import? or possibly interrupting the conversion of photos to DNG?

I have had one experience of the -2 -3 name conundrum, and I know why it happened to me (with Nikon NEF files) -
I interrupted an Import (copy as DNG) of a folder of photos from a camera card, then re-started the Import to get the remaining photos- resulting in the -2 , etc.
My answer as I understand it was this-
1) Import-1: 100% of (NEF) files copied to disk by the OS,. Interrupted when 50% of files converted to DNG by Lightroom. (now I have 50% NEF and 50% DNG on disk and in the Catalog)
2) Import-2: 100% of (NEF) files try to copy a 'Second Time' by the OS, BUT the 50% (NEF) files that were NOT converted to DNG get copied to disk a second time with the -2 suffix because they already exist on the disk with original filename and File Explorer must add the -2 rather than overwrite the first (NEF) copy.
3) Now in Import-2 Lightroom sees the -2 (NEF) files as 'new' files for the catalog and converts them to DNG.
It does not import the renamed DNGs a second time as it sees them as 'duplicates'.

All sounds complicated, but it was the operating system creating the -2 files.
And I can only endorse Hal's explanation-
" Lightroom won't show a name in its catalogue that doesn't exist on disk somewhere (unless that file is listed as missing)."

 

[Laura Smith]

I was trying to explain fully and that's why it sounds like there are so many steps -- it is really a quick and simple process and I've been using it for years

Sorry Lyn, I think I confused you! I know it's quick and simple to do. But what I mean is that if something you're doing during that process is triggering the weird stuff then it would be great to be able to pinpoint exactly which part of that sequence of actions is causing it.

If what I See Light says isn't what's happening with you (I hope it is, my head is spinning ) could you also try this. Go to your selects set, right click one of the DNGs with the -number in the filename, and click to show it in explorer. Where does it take you? I have a hunch that you'll land up somewhere that ISN'T 2018-04-21 on H:. Because as Hal and I See Light said, Lr won't show you a file that doesn't exist somewhere...!

 

[Laura Smith]

Go to your selects set, right click one of the DNGs with the -number in the filename, and click to show it in explorer. Where does it take you? I have a hunch that you'll land up somewhere that ISN'T 2018-04-21 on H:. Because as Hal and I See Light said, Lr won't show you a file that doesn't exist somewhere...!

Oops just realised you've done this. This makes NO SENSE!

I-S-L: What are we missing?!

 

[Laura Smith]

Lyn, I see you're on 7.3. Have you updated to 7.3.1 yet?

 

[Rob_Cullen]

What are we missing?!

The -2 -3 is an Operating system function to rename files.
It is not Lightroom! But Lightroom does use OS functions when it imports.

A test that reproduces the symptom-
1. Select a SOURCE Folder of images to Import
2. Set the Import option to [Copy]
3. Set the destination to THE SAME FOLDER AS THE SOURCE
Result- COPIES with -2 in the Lightroom catalog, and two versions of each file in the folder.
Import a second time with same settings and you get the '-3' files!! proved.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

Lyn,
The workflow to Import photos should be - Import ALL the photos in a folder ONCE and only once. If the photos are already on the Hard-drive, use the [Add] option. (It is the [Copy] function creating the -2 files)
And remember that COLLECTIONS are only 'virtual' lists of selected photos-do not use the Import function to create collections. Your original photos are always stored in FOLDERS on the hard-drive, and make the Collections by selecting specific photos visible in folders (in Library Grid view)

More -3 files.!!!

 

[lyn]

Lyn, EDIT: You beat me with your last post!!
Can you open File Explorer and show us a full clip of all the files in the folder 2018-04-21 ?
I want to see the file names in this folder (not with Lightroom)

When you Import photos into the catalog, are you selecting specific photos for each Collection at the time of Import? or possibly interrupting the conversion of photos to DNG?

I have had one experience of the -2 -3 name conundrum, and I know why it happened to me (with Nikon NEF files) -
I interrupted an Import (copy as DNG) of a folder of photos from a camera card, then re-started the Import to get the remaining photos- resulting in the -2 , etc.
My answer as I understand it was this-
1) Import-1: 100% of (NEF) files copied to disk by the OS,. Interrupted when 50% of files converted to DNG by Lightroom. (now I have 50% NEF and 50% DNG on disk and in the Catalog)
2) Import-2: 100% of (NEF) files try to copy a 'Second Time' by the OS, BUT the 50% (NEF) files that were NOT converted to DNG get copied to disk a second time with the -2 suffix because they already exist on the disk with original filename and File Explorer must add the -2 rather than overwrite the first (NEF) copy.
3) Now in Import-2 Lightroom sees the -2 (NEF) files as 'new' files for the catalog and converts them to DNG.
It does not import the renamed DNGs a second time as it sees them as 'duplicates'.

All sounds complicated, but it was the operating system creating the -2 files.
And I can only endorse Hal's explanation-
" Lightroom won't show a name in its catalogue that doesn't exist on disk somewhere (unless that file is listed as missing)."

I think you may be right that the problem is connected to the dng conversion since that is the main thing that was different (besides the upgrade). There are no extra files on the disk -- and I've plugged it into a different computer to be sure it isn't reading from another drive, synchronized the folder, looked for missing photos etc. It is easy to see the files in Explorer since this is a very small catalog and there are no duplicate files.

I think I'm going to give up on this since I'm not going to use that catalog ever again and don't normally convert to dng on import . Many thanks for all your patience and help! I appreciate it very much!

 

[lyn]

Lyn, I see you're on 7.3. Have you updated to 7.3.1 yet?

Yep -- I'm totally up to date.

I think I'm going to give up on this since I'm not going to use that catalog ever again and don't normally convert to dng on import . Many thanks for all your patience and help! I appreciate it very much!

 

[lyn]

Lyn,
Try this: right-click on one of the images with the name that ends in '-1' and choose Show in Explorer. Do you get taken to the same folder that the original photo is in? If not, where do you see the photo? Lightroom won't show a name in its catalogue that doesn't exist on disk somewhere (unless that file is listed as missing).

I know that's the way Lightroom is supposed to work and has always worked for me in the past. I've tried all that and more. That's why I'm so confused. I think the suggestion that it has something to do with the dng conversion is correct and since I won't be using this catalog or converting to dng I'm giving up on trying to figure this out. Thanks for trying.