Do I need an external plug-in for RAW processing

[iwaddo]

Operating System

1. macOS 15 Sequoia

Hi

I'm a long time LrC user and have enjoyed various versions of Topaz, DxO, Nik Effects over the years. I currently have an active subscription to Photo AI.

My question is whether I need to keep chasing the annual updates for these plug-ins on top of my Adobe subscription?

It is mainly my wildlife, longer zoom, higher ISO images I'm referring to.

Should I now be able to get good results with just LrC & Ps. I am wondering if Adobe is the jack of all trades but to really get the best from my images I do need to subscribe to a master.

I'm sure there will be a lot of 'it depends' is the answers so interested in what people do.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Gnits]

Over the years I have bought most of these plugins… but gradually they get less and less use. Each of their upgrade cycles forces a rethink… as I am not comfortable with their sales pitch / model. But.. I gradually lost the obvious need to use them.

If it is noise related…. then the new Denoise Ai filters are superb… more comfortable to use with a well specified GPU.

I was capturing a family event in a pub (vip)… but for the critical few images my flash did not fire correctly, but did not realise at the time. When I brought the images into LrC… they were completely black. Out of curiosity… I yanked up the exposure and could see some detail behind a snow cloud of noise.

The new DeNoise feature was just released and (by coincidence) got a new 4070Ti GPU… so decided to give DeNoise a go.

For me , and my situation…the results were spectacular and saved the images and was able to share them. They will never be as good as well exposed images…but these were seriously under exposed.

Further.. it was not long ago for any a3 sized printer I took a round trip to Photoshop to do final pixel level edits and apply creative and print ready sharpening.

The new Ai based filters are a game changer… and for a lot of people are both simplier and more intuitive to use, saving both a round trip to Photoshop and also avoids the creation of large intermediate tiffs / psds.

You will get lots of different flavoured responses… but you can experiment yourself to find your own combo of tools.

What is guaranteed is that these tools will continue to evolve…so it may be just a case of timing when changes to your workflow / toolkit become relevant.

 

[johnbeardy]

It depends. I've dated a lot of plugins over the years, but the only one that really stole my heart was SilverEfexPro.

While it depends.... let me throw in a couple of considerations:

• Lightroom isn't just about processing your pictures, it helps you manage them. Find me all your tiger pictures in a couple of seconds, just those with >3 stars. Now let's see big cats, just the >4 star ones. And exclude those with the word Zoo somewhere. Quick with Lightroom, and there's time left over for the creative stuff.
• The second point is about Photoshop. Is there anything it can't do? It's one hell of one hell of a Swiss army knife.

There's a saying about the grass always being greener in another field, but sometimes deepening your skills is the most rewarding approach.

 

[Gnits]

I agree with John.
I also plan to keep SilverEfxPro ...... forever.

Also, as a user of LrC since beta... I keep finding new (and useful) features.

You mention Raw as a PlugIn. If so ... maybe you have a Photoshop centric workflow. Nothing wrong with that, other than you have a psd / file view of the world rather than the full capabilities of LrC. Eg I prefer to print with the LrC Print module.

 

[Zenon]

After Adobe released Adobe Denoise AI I removed, DXO PureRaw, ON1 NoNoise, Topaz DenNoise AI and Photo AI off my system. No more second guessing of which one to use. Since I Iike to upgrade to the latest offerings that is about $100+ in savings every year. LrC does pretty much everything I need. Since the advanced masking I can't remember the last time I sent a file to PS.

I did keep Topaz Sharpen AI which I seldom use. Not too many OOF files survive my first few pre-culls. It has to be pretty special to keep. Topaz Sharpen AI has not had an update since 2022 but it was a pretty mature product by them so it works in a pinch. Topaz DeNoise AI's last update was in 2023 but since Adobe's release I stopped using it.

ON1's NoNoise now comes with Tack Sharp AI but I don't really need it. I'm kind of hoping to see Adobe release a Sharpen AI module someday. That and enabling the Neural engine again is all I really need at this point. I'm still happy to make use of any new other additions and if course the ongoing improvements in all areas of AI.

 

[Zenon]

ISO 20,000 with the old Adobe DNG process. Original also posted.

 

[Zenon]

Over the years I have bought most of these plugins… but gradually they get less and less use. Each of their upgrade cycles forces a rethink… as I am not comfortable with their sales pitch / model. But.. I gradually lost the obvious need to use them.

If it is noise related…. then the new Denoise Ai filters are superb… more comfortable to use with a well specified GPU.

I was capturing a family event in a pub (vip)… but for the critical few images my flash did not fire correctly, but did not realise at the time. When I brought the images into LrC… they were completely black. Out of curiosity… I yanked up the exposure and could see some detail behind a snow cloud of noise.

The new DeNoise feature was just released and (by coincidence) got a new 4070Ti GPU… so decided to give DeNoise a go.

For me , and my situation…the results were spectacular and saved the images and was able to share them. They will never be as good as well exposed images…but these were seriously under exposed.

Further.. it was not long ago for any a3 sized printer I took a round trip to Photoshop to do final pixel level edits and apply creative and print ready sharpening.

The new Ai based filters are a game changer… and for a lot of people are both simplier and more intuitive to use, saving both a round trip to Photoshop and also avoids the creation of large intermediate tiffs / psds.

You will get lots of different flavoured responses… but you can experiment yourself to find your own combo of tools.

What is guaranteed is that these tools will continue to evolve…so it may be just a case of timing when changes to your workflow / toolkit become relevant.

It may be an age thing but as I mentioned I just decided to simplify everything. Not that I don't have the storage space but I'm happy not to see DNG's and TIFF's in the filmstrip. I have no good reason's for that but I just feel better about it.

Within a few days of the release I went into LrC and got rid of all DXO noise edits. It's very ironic. On other sites I spend time trying explain to people that the catalogue is not your files. Also LrC does not take over and whisk your files off to some unblown location. Users have complete control of their own filing system. Some still don't believe it or get the concept. It's ironic because DXO takes over in LrC by creating its own collection which I always hated because I didn't have control over it. It's no big deal but I find the irony amusing.

 

[Gnits]

The original concept of the LrC catalog / database was a game changer. Little did we know how powerful this would become.

I have spent a lot of time assisting people develop their digital workflow skills. It is my experience that people who came to the party with Photoshop skills… were very reluctant to accept a catalog based workflow and often continued with a psd file based workflow. Some I know still do.

On the other hand.. new club members with no prior knowledge of Photoshop did have to absorb the concept of the Catalog.. but then thought no more about it. In the early days of Lightroom it was fairly normal to do round trips to Photoshop for specialist sharpening, noise reduction, pixel editing… so PSD files featured as just another asset within the catalog.

Now.. the need to do round trips to Photoshop are so dramatically reduced….. it is no surprised that the original poster posed this question.

 

[Zenon]

The original concept of the LrC catalog / database was a game changer. Little did we know how powerful this would become.

I have spent a lot of time assisting people develop their digital workflow skills. It is my experience that people who came to the party with Photoshop skills… were very reluctant to accept a catalog based workflow and often continued with a psd file based workflow. Some I know still do.

On the other hand.. new club members with no prior knowledge of Photoshop did have to absorb the concept of the Catalog.. but then thought no more about it. In the early days of Lightroom it was fairly normal to do round trips to Photoshop for specialist sharpening, noise reduction, pixel editing… so PSD files featured as just another asset within the catalog.

Now.. the need to do round trips to Photoshop are so dramatically reduced….. it is no surprised that the original poster posed this question.

There is one person on another site that insists used LRx (before subscription) and didn't like its filing system so used his own and somehow bypassed the catalogue. Unless there is something I'm missing (which I doubt) I don't how anyone could do that. Unless you import and let it read the metadata to add it to the database LRx/LrC does not even know the file exists. I will never show in the library.

I think the word "Import" throws people off at first. I guess it can appear that it takes over and hides your files, makes duplicates, etc. The key to LrC is taking the time to plan out a good start, keep things tidy and optimize/check integrity. It does not take much. I'm no where near the level of the gurus here but since 2011 I have had the same catalogue. I've had a few hiccups along the way the way but every version and catalogue upgrade has been smooth.

 

[clee01l]

The question: “Do I need an external Plug-in for RAW processing?” Has probably been answered.. However others have mention their continued reliance upon SilverEfex which still seems to be superior to and B&W conversions by Lr Classic or Photoshop.
DeNoise only works on RAW. I find I still need Topaz products to do the same noise reduction on RGB files. Lightroom still produces RGB derivatives of HDR and Panoramas and SuperResolution.

Lightroom’s Super resolution only creates one size. GigaPixel and other Topaz resize offered better control over the output size.

So, until Adobe comes out with a DeNoise that works on non RAW images and Resize is on par with the features found in Topaz and other products. I think for me there is still a need for external editors other than Photoshop.

 

[johnbeardy]

I don't consider SFX superior in any technical way, and it simply doesn't produce better B&W conversion. It's a purely creative judgement, the result of enjoying its combination of B&W tools.

 

[Zenon]

Lots of uses for plugins. SilverEfex is excellent. From my hobby side I like to do it all in LrC. I found a few videos and developed sort of a workflow. I've counted over 75 edits with many radial and linear gradients. I could not repeat that same edit the next day so I call it box of chocolates
I couldn't match some of the unique tones of SilverEffects without a lot work investigating the process. I've never tried and doubt I will.