Sync Disappointing discovery

[Umberto Cocca]

Lightroom Version Number

LR Classic CC 8.2

Operating System

1. Windows 10

Today for the 1st time I made a discovery of which I am quite disappointed. Apparently it is not possible to sync a smart collection from Lightroom Classic CC to the cloud.

The workaround I found is to select all photos from the smart collection, save them to a quick collection and then save the quick collection into a dumb collection.
Of course this workaround doesn't keep the dumb collection updated with additional photos / removed photos.

Does any of you use a different and more efficient workaround? Any input is highly appreciated.
Umberto

 

[prbimages]

Does any of you use a different and more efficient workaround? Any input is highly appreciated.

Although I haven't used it, you could check out Jeffrey Friedl's "Smart-Collection Sync" plugin:

Jeffrey's "Smart-Collection Sync" Lightroom Plugin

 

[Umberto Cocca]

Thanks @prbimages I have read the content of the plug-in description in the website and to me it seems an unnecessarily complicated tool to achieve what I think is a trivial task.

On the Adobe support forums, the new feature request has been around for the last 5 years though, so I have little hope that it will be implemented.
https://feedback.photoshop.com/phot...tions_to_lightroom_mobile_lightroom_adobe_com

 

[Johan Elzenga]

It is actually quite complicated. Uploading images from a smart collection would be trivial, but syncing would require that the cloud also has smart collection (smart album) abilities. It does not have that (yet). And even then there would still be potential problems. For example, in Lightroom Classic you can setup a smart collection that searches for folder names, but these are a local thing. How is the cloud supposed to know the name of a local folder on your hard disk? Your computer may be turned off...

 

[Umberto Cocca]

I agree, folder names might not be applicable to LRCC, but since you cannot create a smart collection from there, there is no need for LRCC to manage them.
All LRCC needs to do is to display and update the content of the smart collection based on

1. The original content and formula of the smart collection and
2. The parameters that might be changed in LRCC such as rating, flag, edit status, title, caption, copyright, (keywords?), etc.

Changes in point 2 would affect the content of the smart collection if that image does not correspond any longer to the criteria for the original smart collection (for example, downgrading an image from 4 to 3 stars, removing a keyword from the list or a pick flag).

Still not sure how keywords are treated in LRCC but it's a wishful thinking of mine.

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[Califdan]

Not your real question, but you have an extra step in your work around. Once you select all the images in the smart collection there is no need to put them in the Quick Collection. Just drag them to a dumb collection that is synced to the cloud or create a new dumb collection and check the "include selected photos" box

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I agree, folder names might not be applicable to LRCC, but since you cannot create a smart collection from there, there is no need for LRCC to manage them.
All LRCC needs to do is to display and update the content of the smart collection based on

1. The original content and formula of the smart collection and
2. The parameters that might be changed in LRCC such as rating, flag, edit status, title, caption, copyright, (keywords?), etc.

Changes in point 2 would affect the content of the smart collection if that image does not correspond any longer to the criteria for the original smart collection (for example, downgrading an image from 4 to 3 stars, removing a keyword from the list or a pick flag).

Still not sure how keywords are treated in LRCC but it's a wishful thinking of mine.

You are missing the point. Lightroom CC cannot display and update the content of the smart collection. That is exactly what I am trying to explain. Your smart collection may contain non-syncing criteria, such as the name of a local folder, a local (non-synced) normal collection, keywords, so the original formula does not match anything in Lightroom CC. It would result in zero images.

Of course Lightroom CC could simply display the original smart collection as a normal album, maybe that is what you mean, but that would create another problem. You can manually add images to an album or remove images from an album. How would that sync back? It means that album would somehow have to be locked in Lightroom CC, so you can’t add or remove images. And then people would come here asking why they can’t add images to a certain album in Lightroom CC...

The second potential problem is that changing the criteria of an image in Lightroom CC would result in deleting that image from Lightroom CC, unlike in Lightroom Classic where the image is only removed from the synced collection. One wrong swipe and your image is gone. But here’s a catch: if your desktop computer running Lr Classic is turned off at this very moment, then nothing would happen. The smart collection in Lightroom Classic would not get updated right away, so the album in Lightroom CC would also not get updated. That is already confusing if you changed the criteria on purpose, but if you did it by mistake then it could mean that you never noticed your mistake. Until you turn on Lightroom Classic one day and then suddenly images start disappearing from Lightroom CC... I am already (not) looking forward to all the ‘Help’ messages here in this forum...

Nothing is impossible and for all these problems a solution could be found, but it is far from trivial. I am sure Adobe looked into this request and decided it would become too complicated and/or confusing. It is a very common request in the feedback forums, and Adobe discussed and asked questions in that thread too, so they definitely did consider it.

 

[Umberto Cocca]

You are missing the point. Lightroom CC cannot display and update the content of the smart collection.

I am perfectly aware of this, that's why I am disappointed.

Of course Lightroom CC could simply display the original smart collection as a normal album, maybe that is what you mean, but that would create another problem. You can manually add images to an album or remove images from an album.

That's what I had in mind, and to solve that problem I would lock the album for new photos.

To me it is like you are making a collection of Green photos and you want to add a Blue one. It simply doesn't make sense.

And then people would come here asking why they can’t add images to a certain album in Lightroom CC...

How is that different from smart collections? A d why that doesn't happen with smart collections? Users have to learn their tools.

The second potential problem is that changing the criteria of an image in Lightroom CC would result in deleting that image from Lightroom CC, unlike in Lightroom Classic where the image is only removed from the synced collection. One wrong swipe and your image is gone.

Yes, it's gone from LRCC but not from Classic. And since you can't create a smart collection outside Classic I don't see this as an issue. The photo will be in a classic folder somewhere.

But here’s a catch: if your desktop computer running Lr Classic is turned off at this very moment, then nothing would happen. The smart collection in Lightroom Classic would not get updated right away, so the album in Lightroom CC would also not get updated. That is already confusing if you changed the criteria on purpose, but if you did it by mistake then it could mean that you never noticed your mistake. Until you turn on Lightroom Classic one day and then suddenly images start disappearing from Lightroom CC... I am already (not) looking forward to all the ‘Help’ messages here in this forum...

The fact that I am talking about smart collections means implicitly that my main working tool is LR Classic, so that one day when you turn it back on is not so far away.

I understand that the Engine of smart collections reside in LR Classic therefore any changes made in CC are not reflected immediately in the synced collection. So no harm is made to any byte of data in the syncing process. Also working locally you can make a mistake and realise that you have made it months after it happened. How is this different? I am not saying I have the perfect solution to all, but I do not agree with all of your concerns.

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[Johan Elzenga]

Apparently Adobe did agree.

 

[Umberto Cocca]

And that's where my disappointment comes from
I use LRCC only for 2 things: 1. upload mobile camera photos to LR Classic and 2. review and share photos with friends.

Happy to have different opinions on functions and tools, I am not a programmer and I do not know the "behind the scenes" to each of the options.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

In that case you may refrain from suggesting that adding this functionality is trivial. That was my only point. I do not say that I would not like to see some way of syncing smart collections as well. I definitely would like that. But I do understand why it would be far from trivial to implement that.

 

[tspear]

In that case you may refrain from suggesting that adding this functionality is trivial. That was my only point. I do not say that I would not like to see some way of syncing smart collections as well. I definitely would like that. But I do understand why it would be far from trivial to implement that.

Nah; it is trivial to add such a feature. But it would either cause more problems or be crippled to the point it is useless. To avoid the additional complexity and problems, you would need to spend a lot more resources on it.

And with Adobe the cloud is heading in the direction of a pure CC not this work around hybrid focus; there the return is likely rather small. Plus Adobe offers portfolio/behance and other online web sharing tools. It would likely be a lot easier to Adobe to just build a dedicated phone to Classic flow than trying to leverage the existing web infrastructure; and this would solve more customer concerns.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Nah; it is trivial to add such a feature. But it would either cause more problems or be crippled to the point it is useless. To avoid the additional complexity and problems, you would need to spend a lot more resources on it.

In other words; it would only be trivial to add something useless, and it would not be trivial to add something that would work. Seems we agree.

 

[tspear]

In other words; it would only be trivial to add something useless, and it would not be trivial to add something that would work. Seems we agree.

Yeah but I so rarely get a chance to nitpick your comments and say you are incorrect. So I just had to take it....

Tim

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[Umberto Cocca]

Ok, I think my words have been misinterpreted. the word trivial that I used was referred to the description of the task: duplicating the content of a smart collection in an album in LRCC. I never said it would be trivial to implement. And honestly I think the feature is not useless, given the amount of comments and interest in Adobe's forum.

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[Johan Elzenga]

Nobody said the feature itself would be useless. The implementation would be if not very carefully thought out. That is what this discussion was all about.