Custom Defaults - Override for Specific Camera

[jclarkw]

Lightroom Version Number

12.0 Classic

Operating System

1. Windows 10

I'm not sure I really understand what's being described on p.377 of the 3rd edition of "The Missing FAQ."

I have an Apple iPhone 13 Pro, and I've set it to take selected photos in "Apple ProRaw" format. I do want Lightroom Classic to apply the camera-specific settings and lens corrections to such photos on import, so I followed these instructions to set this camera as the "specific camera" in Preferences/Presets and to use "Camera Settings" as the default. (I tried this with and without setting "Camera Settings" also set in the Import dialog, but I don't know if that's also necessary.)

Nevertheless,
1) I get a warning message when I import only such photos, saying something like "some imported files were not converted to DNG" (well, they are already in DNG from the camera, so perhaps that's expected?). And
2) after import I can't see any difference between these and others that had been imported before the change in defaults (they are still "lack-luster" compared to nearly identical photos shot as HDR JPG).

I note on the Develop tab under "Lens Corrections" that, if I check the "Enable Profile Corrections" box (but not the "Remove Chromatic Aberration" box), it shows the correct camera and lens used, but I don't know whether these changes were already made during the import process or if I also need a preset for that to apply during import. Can somebody please explain exactly what's happening during the modified import described on p.377? -- jclarkw

 

[jclarkw]

Dear johnrellis -- Please see my two PMs this afternoon. -- jclarkw

 

[John R Ellis]

Propping the camera on the chair, take two DNGs, one with Lens Corrections on and one with it off. Do the same with HEICs. Then share the four pics here via Dropbox. To quote my favorite president, "Trust but verify".

Looking at the four sample pics you sent, I can't see any difference between them with respect to lens corrections -- they all look the same to me. And they look lens-corrected! And the DNGs don't contain any embedded lens profiles. I have no idea what's going on...

 

[jclarkw]

Looking at the four sample pics you sent, I can't see any difference between them with respect to lens corrections -- they all look the same to me. And they look lens-corrected! And the DNGs don't contain any embedded lens profiles. I have no idea what's going on...

Thanks Again, johnrellis!

Everyone -- I tried again with Apple tech support but have yet to get an answer. Nevertheless, on this iPhone 13 Pro (iOS 16.1.1) it appears that EVERYTHING out of this camera has lens corrections applied (or perhaps everything does NOT, I'm not sure how to tell), independent of Settings/Camera/Lens Corrections. This makes no sense! -- jclarkw

 

[jclarkw]

Thanks Again, johnrellis!

Everyone -- I tried again with Apple tech support but have yet to get an answer. Nevertheless, on this iPhone 13 Pro (iOS 16.1.1) it appears that EVERYTHING out of this camera has lens corrections applied (or perhaps everything does NOT, I'm not sure how to tell), independent of Settings/Camera/Lens Corrections. This makes no sense! -- jclarkw

Everyone -- I have an answer of sorts from a gentleman in the "Creative Media" department of Apple tech support:

1) If Settings/Camera/Lens Corrections is turned ON, the 13 Pro camera makes a judgement based on the particular scene as to whether the corrections are needed or not. If it decides they ARE needed, they are applied independently of whether you're taking HEIC or ProRaw photos. If it decides not, they are not applied in either case.

2) Because of its small aperture and short focal length, the Ultra-Wide camera on this phone (and presumably on the 14 Pro) often decides that it does not need lens corrections, in spite of the fact that a film camera with comparably wide-angle lens would always show considerable barrel or other distortions.

3) I asked if I could upload one (or more) of my images to see if he thought they should or should not need lens corrections, but he told me that he would not be able to tell. Neither could he predict what kind of scene would need them.

I find much of this difficult to believe, but it came from "the horse's mouth." I guess it remains for one of us to find a scene that the camera does think needs correction... -- jclarkw

 

[John R Ellis]

2) Because of its small aperture and short focal length, the Ultra-Wide camera on this phone (and presumably on the 14 Pro) often decides that it does not need lens corrections, in spite of the fact that a film camera with comparably wide-angle lens would always show considerable barrel or other distortions.

Interesting -- sounds plausible. (Though these days, I have very little trust in the support departments of large tech companies.)

I googled again and didn't find any references to conditional application of lens corrections with ultra wide in the Iphone 12 or 13. I couldn't even find examples showing lens correction on and off. I did find one apples-to-oranges example comparing the Iphone 11 ultra-wide (left) with the Iphone 12 (right, presumably with lens correction on in the 12):

https://ios.gadgethacks.com/how-to/...-iphone-12-12-mini-12-pro-12-pro-max-0346741/

Maybe try a similar scene with your phone.

 

[jclarkw]

johnrellis -- Please see our private conversation again. -- jclarkw

 

[Victoria Bampton]

But they're saying that with the 13 with Lens Corrections on, the Camera app is applying the corrections to the actual pixels of the image (as it does with HEICs), not embedding a profile in the DNG.

That's the conclusion I'd just come to post too. They have to be applying the corrections directly to the pixels. Perhaps the lenses in these cameras have more distortion they don't want people seeing?

I opened one of my raw files in RawDigger and it shows the opcodes in the EXIF and visible distortion in the image that isn't there in Lightroom or a phone-created HEIC. With John's files, there's no opcodes in the metadata and no visible difference. The final thing we really need is someone else with an iPhone 13 or later to shoot a raw file and let us verify the same happens on theirs (to exclude workflow changes).

 

[Merak75]

That's the conclusion I'd just come to post too. They have to be applying the corrections directly to the pixels. Perhaps the lenses in these cameras have more distortion they don't want people seeing?

I opened one of my raw files in RawDigger and it shows the opcodes in the EXIF and visible distortion in the image that isn't there in Lightroom or a phone-created HEIC. With John's files, there's no opcodes in the metadata and no visible difference. The final thing we really need is someone else with an iPhone 13 or later to shoot a raw file and let us verify the same happens on theirs (to exclude workflow changes).

I have 8 photos with the Ultra Wide lens from the iPhone 14 Pro Max. The ones that have _lc at end of file name are the ones with lens correction setting ON.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bc1v2li45bu0op9/iPhone_14_UW.zip?dl=0


4 with iOS App
IMG_0486_lc.DNG
IMG_0487_lc.HEIC
IMG_0488.DNG
IMG_0489.HEIC

4 with Lr App
APC_0016_lc.dng
APC_0017_lc.jpg
APC_0018.dng
APC_0019.jpg

 

[Victoria Bampton]

You're a star @Merak, thank you.

So based on your files and everything we've learned so far...

iOS Camera applies the lens corrections to the raw image pixels and saves them as a linear DNG, no opcodes but lens corrections clearly applied regardless of the toggle switch in Settings. They also visibly have lots of noise reduction applied, compared to the LR true raw. That would also explain why the iOS DNG's are bigger.

LR Camera saves the lens corrections as opcodes and saves a proper raw DNG, and they show as "Built-in lens corrections applied". When the opcodes aren't applied (using RawDigger), you can see visible curvature in the corners.

 

[Merak75]

Great info, thanks. My wife has the 13 Pro Max so I will take some more with that after work. I suspect it will be the same.

 

[jclarkw]

You're a star @Merak, thank you.

So based on your files and everything we've learned so far...

iOS Camera applies the lens corrections to the raw image pixels and saves them as a linear DNG, no opcodes but lens corrections clearly applied regardless of the toggle switch in Settings. They also visibly have lots of noise reduction applied, compared to the LR true raw. That would also explain why the iOS DNG's are bigger.

LR Camera saves the lens corrections as opcodes and saves a proper raw DNG, and they show as "Built-in lens corrections applied". When the opcodes aren't applied (using RawDigger), you can see visible curvature in the corners.

Dear Victoria -- Sounds reasonable. (I can't yet verify the curvature of the real raw images on my 13 Pro, since I have neither the LR app nor RawDigger. Maybe I'd better get both...) Would you consider uploading via DropBox the raw image out of RawDigger from Marek75's file "APC_0018.dng" showing that corner curvature?

This means that what the Apple expert told me was misleading to the extent that he at least implied no lens corrections were applied if the Settings/Camera/Lens Corrections switch was off. Cheers! -- jclarkw

 

[Merak75]

Here are sample photos from the iPhone 13 Pro Max:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pp02b11anq1x9uw/iPhone_13_UW.zip?dl=0

 

[Victoria Bampton]

Would you consider uploading via DropBox the raw image out of RawDigger from Marek75's file "APC_0018.dng" showing that corner curvature?

Here's the curvy corners as shown in RawDigger:

 

[jclarkw]

Here's the curvy corners as shown in RawDigger...

All -- I installed Lightroom Mobile on my iPhone 13 Pro and learned how to sync to my desktop through Lightroom Classic with considerable help from Jim Wilde. Based on Victoria's post above, I also purchased RawDigger "Research Edition" and installed it on my Desktop. My immediate goal was to check the real raw images generated by my own camera for lens distortion. Although I'm still a newbie on RawDigger, and there are still a few uncertainties indicated below, here are some interesting results.

I shot a flat scene with LrM on the Ultra-Wide lens of my 13 Pro in HDR mode . It stored two files -- only one if not in HDR mode. First is a screen shot of a tiff file saved by RawDigger of the file stored by LrM as "APC_0018.dng":

https://www.dropbox.com/s/spghvdpxkk8nu1s/APC_0018-RGB.png?dl=0

Second is a similar screen shot of the one stored as "APC_0018-hdr.dng" -- I don't know why this one has a pink cast:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jymko3x1gk50qzo/APC_0018-hdr-RGB.png?dl=0

Final one is a screen shot from LrC of the file stored by LrM as "APC_0018.dng":

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l8om4v3acjwl8ae/APC_0018_Lighrtoom.png?dl=0\

Evidently the first image has not had any (?) lens corrections applied and shows rather extreme image curvature toward the corners from distortion in the ultra-wide lens. Interestingly this curvature is gone from the other two images. In line with that, the EXIF data from the first file shows
"Opcode List 3 WarpRectilinear2, FixVignetteRadial", whereas the second file shows only
"Opcode List 3 MapPolynomial."
I guess these are the opcodes that johnrellis was talking about earlier in this thread, and the latter explains why LrC does not report any lens corrections applied. -- jclarkw