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Custom Defaults - Override for Specific Camera

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I'm not sure I really understand what's being described on p.377 of the 3rd edition of "The Missing FAQ."

I have an Apple iPhone 13 Pro, and I've set it to take selected photos in "Apple ProRaw" format. I do want Lightroom Classic to apply the camera-specific settings and lens corrections to such photos on import, so I followed these instructions to set this camera as the "specific camera" in Preferences/Presets and to use "Camera Settings" as the default. (I tried this with and without setting "Camera Settings" also set in the Import dialog, but I don't know if that's also necessary.)

Nevertheless,
1) I get a warning message when I import only such photos, saying something like "some imported files were not converted to DNG" (well, they are already in DNG from the camera, so perhaps that's expected?). And
2) after import I can't see any difference between these and others that had been imported before the change in defaults (they are still "lack-luster" compared to nearly identical photos shot as HDR JPG).

I note on the Develop tab under "Lens Corrections" that, if I check the "Enable Profile Corrections" box (but not the "Remove Chromatic Aberration" box), it shows the correct camera and lens used, but I don't know whether these changes were already made during the import process or if I also need a preset for that to apply during import. Can somebody please explain exactly what's happening during the modified import described on p.377? -- jclarkw
 
Solution
You're a star @Merak, thank you.

So based on your files and everything we've learned so far...

iOS Camera applies the lens corrections to the raw image pixels and saves them as a linear DNG, no opcodes but lens corrections clearly applied regardless of the toggle switch in Settings. They also visibly have lots of noise reduction applied, compared to the LR true raw. That would also explain why the iOS DNG's are bigger.

LR Camera saves the lens corrections as opcodes and saves a proper raw DNG, and they show as "Built-in lens corrections applied". When the opcodes aren't applied (using RawDigger), you can see visible curvature in the corners.
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Clarification: To find "p.377 of the 3rd edition," search "Defaults" in Ch.16, Develop - Editing Tools. You will find instructions to set camera-specific defaults to be applied on import. It's these that I have questions about. -- jclarkw
 
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What do you have set as your Global defaults? You'd only need camera-specific defaults if they're different for different cameras.

I tried this with and without setting "Camera Settings" also set in the Import dialog, but I don't know if that's also necessary.
The import dialog Develop Settings overrides the default settings, so you'd only need one or the other.

1) I get a warning message when I import only such photos, saying something like "some imported files were not converted to DNG" (well, they are already in DNG from the camera, so perhaps that's expected?). And
It sounds like you have the top of the Import dialog set to Copy as DNG rather than Copy. It's unrelated to default settings, but yes, there's no point converting DNG's to DNG's.

2) after import I can't see any difference between these and others that had been imported before the change in defaults (they are still "lack-luster" compared to nearly identical photos shot as HDR JPG).
The JPEGs have additional processing applied to them by Apple, whereas the DNG's are waiting for you to make the changes of your choice.

I note on the Develop tab under "Lens Corrections" that, if I check the "Enable Profile Corrections" box (but not the "Remove Chromatic Aberration" box), it shows the correct camera and lens used, but I don't know whether these changes were already made during the import process or if I also need a preset for that to apply during import.
Does the image visually change (e.g. become less distorted) when you check Enable Profile Corrections, or not?
 
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Sorry there are so many replies/questions imbedded below. I've tried to separate them into different paragraphs:
What do you have set as your Global defaults? You'd only need camera-specific defaults if they're different for different cameras.
Well, I use at least four different cameras, but I have never had the opportunity to shoot Raw before, so I have little idea what I'm doing. Under Edit/Preferences/Presets/Global I currently have "Camera Settings" checked. (Maybe it was originally "Adobe Default" from the factory.) Perhaps this is redundant when also checking the "Override.. for Specific Cameras" box as I'm also doing?

Bottom line here is that I don't really understand the difference between "Defaults" and "Presets," nor do I understand the priority of different settings in Lightroom. In order to get the relevant Lens (and Chromatic Aberration) corrections applied on import, do I also have to put "Preset" in the Global box and then select as the desired preset Optics/Lens + CA Correction? Or is it sufficient to select the desired camera and "Camera Settings" in the Override section?

Reading further into your book I see on p. 339-340 that, under Develop/Lens Corrections, after selecting (perhaps automatically) the appropriate camera and lens, you can make that a default under "Setup" by selecting "Default" (I think) and then "Save New Lens Profile Defaults" where I currently have "Custom."

So if these are indeed two independent ways of achieving the same result, which approach is preferred? Or do I need to do both? And having set this up correctly, is there a way to verify that the correct adjustments were in fact applied on Import?

One more thing is making it difficult to do my own experimenting with import corrections: I can't seem to import different versions of the same photo with different settings in Lightroom. Even if I change the name of the previously imported file, it still recognizes the new one as a duplicate and refuses to import. Is there a "clean" way around this without deleting the previous?
The import dialog Develop Settings overrides the default settings, so you'd only need one or the other.
OK. Is one approach better (for also including specific Lens Corrections") than the other or clearer to understand and "debug?"
It sounds like you have the top of the Import dialog set to Copy as DNG rather than Copy. It's unrelated to default settings, but yes, there's no point converting DNG's to DNG's.
You are right. Fixed that.
The JPEGs have additional processing applied to them by Apple, whereas the DNG's are waiting for you to make the changes of your choice.
Understood. So I guess I don't understand just what adjustments "Camera Settings" includes.
Does the image visually change (e.g. become less distorted) when you check Enable Profile Corrections, or not?
On some lenses, especially the so-called "Ultra Wide," some barrel distortion is clearly removed by Develop/Lens Corrections/Enable Profile Corrections. Does this mean that I failed automatically applying this correction on import? Or does Lightroom allow me to apply this correction again?

Thanks VERY much for your relevant reply. With your help I hope I have at least clarified my misunderstandings above. -- jclarkw
 
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Bottom line here is that I don't really understand the difference between "Defaults" and "Presets," nor do I understand the priority of different settings in Lightroom.
Yeah, it's a bit of a minefield, no question! Fortunately once you have it set the way you like it, you won't have to mess with it again.

The main difference between Defaults and selecting a preset in the Import dialog, is that Defaults only apply to the raw files, whereas a preset selected in the import dialog tries to apply to all selected photos. Also, defaults always stay selected whereas you have to remember to set the preset during import if you import from different cameras. So, for the kind of thing you're talking about, defaults would be ideal.

Reading further into your book I see on p. 339-340 that, under Develop/Lens Corrections, after selecting (perhaps automatically) the appropriate camera and lens, you can make that a default under "Setup" by selecting "Default" (I think) and then "Save New Lens Profile Defaults" where I currently have "Custom."

Good clue. If you select Default, does it still select the right profile? I think it should for an iPhone. The custom option is more for overriding the default, for example, where a single lens has multiple profiles available. That's unlikely to be the case for an iPhone.

Understood. So I guess I don't understand just what adjustments "Camera Settings" includes.
It varies depending on the camera. My iPhone's a series 12, but let me do a little testing so I can be really specific on which settings will get you the result you want for that camera.
 
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The main difference between Defaults and selecting a preset in the Import dialog, is that Defaults only apply to the raw files, whereas a preset selected in the import dialog tries to apply to all selected photos... So, for the kind of thing you're talking about, defaults would be ideal.
Thanks! Very helpful.
Good clue. If you select Default, does it still select the right profile? I think it should for an iPhone. The custom option is more for overriding the default, for example, where a single lens has multiple profiles available. That's unlikely to be the case for an iPhone.
OK, here's my current plan:
1) Set up the "Camera Settings" for 13 Pro in the Preferences/Presets/Global box.
2) In the Develop/Lens Corrections section, save a Lens Corrections Default for each of the four lenses. (Only the "front" (selfie) lens and the Ultra Wide "back" lens are said to have corrections applied by in-camera for the JPEG files, and I verified with Apple Support yesterday that they are NOT applied to the ProRaw files.
This sound reasonable?

Further, I can go back to a clean slate and add one change at a time, importing new files each time. (I guess I just have to turn off "Don't Import Suspected Duplicates" in the Import dialog for this exercise.) Then I can compare the resulting photos directly in Lightroom to see what changes have been made...

It varies depending on the camera. My iPhone's a series 12, but let me do a little testing so I can be really specific on which settings will get you the result you want for that camera.
Great! Meanwhile I'll let you know if I learn anything useful from the above... -- jclarkw
 
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Update: I'm working on the above plan, but there seem to be stumbling blocks:

1) Cell phone cameras are apparently described in terms of "35 mm equivalent focal lengths," but to convert to actual focal length requires knowledge of the actual diagonal measurement of the sensor chip, which is difficult to come by. I'm making some progress on that front wit the help of Web searches...
2) The listed lenses (Adobe lens-correction catalog) in Lightroom are apparently given in terms of actual focal length, which is of course dramatically shorter than the equivalent focal lengths listed in the phone reviews. Therefore it seems necessary to convert. I hope to have answers on this tomorrow...
3) Although the iPhone 13 Pro has three back cameras (Ultra Wide, Wide, and Telephoto) and one front camera (selfie), only two back and one back lenses and one front are listed in the Adobe/Apple catalog. The Ultra Wide, in particular, is not matched up by Lightroom even though that's the one most in need of correction. (I imagined that the ProRaw file itself would provide the needed correction, but it seems not. As yet I don't know how to solve this problem...

Best Regards -- jclarkw
 
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Right, got some testing done...

In the Lens Corrections panel with Enable Profile Corrections disabled, do you see this?
2022-10-31_11-54-33.png


If you do, it means that Lightroom's already applying the lens corrections that Apple wrote into the metadata of the file, so you don't need to do a thing. When I click on the i, it very helpfully tells me that the UW lens is 1.54 f/2.4 and distortion correction is already applied.
2022-10-31_12-01-20.png


When you click Enable Profile Corrections, you override the lens corrections Apple created, and switch to using a profile created by Adobe. Like you note on your iPhone 13 Pro, my iPhone 12 Pro Max has 3 back cameras, but only two of them have Adobe-created lens profiles. Who knows why. And when you select Enable Profile Corrections on the UW lens, for some reason it's defaulting to the profile for the front camera, which is no help whatsoever!

So the long and the short of it is, as long as Apple's own built in lens profiles look ok (they do on mine), then you don't need to mess around with enabling lens corrections in defaults or anywhere else.
 
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Right, got some testing done...

In the Lens Corrections panel with Enable Profile Corrections disabled, do you see this?
View attachment 19530

If you do, it means that Lightroom's already applying the lens corrections that Apple wrote into the metadata of the file, so you don't need to do a thing.
Dear Victoria -- The short answer is, "No;" but maybe I need to delete the photos and re-import them? I've already messed around with potential lens corrections under Develop/Lens Corrections before (just now) removing them.

But what settings should I have in Lightroom to make it apply the Apple lens corrections? I'm still not confident that I have the correct settings (presumably in Preferences/Presets) to make this happen. As described above, I currently have those indicated in the attached image. -- jclarkw
 

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  • Preferences-Presets Specific Cameras.png
    Preferences-Presets Specific Cameras.png
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Those look good. In the Lens Corrections panel, you'd only see the built-in lens corrections applied when profile is unchecked. If in doubt, feel free to send me one of the raw files.
 
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Those look good. In the Lens Corrections panel, you'd only see the built-in lens corrections applied when profile is unchecked. If in doubt, feel free to send me one of the raw files.
Thanks! I hope I've got this right: I downloaded the file directly from the camera, NOT as imported by Lightroom. If that's not what you wanted, please let me know

Unfortunately your site says this DNG file is not an allowed type, so it may not come through. Please advise.

Meanwhile I did try deleting the raw photos in Lightroom and re-importing them with all the Develop/Lens Correction boxes unchecked (and all of the previously saved Adobe lens corrections reset). Same result: no indications of Apple corrections applied. I'm running Lightroom 12.0.1 on a Windows 10 (21H1) machine.

The image I'm trying to send is from the Ultra-Wide camera, which, does not have an appropriate Adobe correction. (Lightroom tries to substitute one from an iPad Mini (6th generation)!) This camera really should have an Apple correction, since it's the one most likely to have distortion. -- jclarkw
 
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We have confirmation... there are no Apple corrections stored as DNG opcodes in that file, likely because iOS Settings > Camera > Lens Correction was disabled at the time of shooting. I've confirmed the same behavior on my iPhone 12 Pro Max.
 
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We have confirmation... there are no Apple corrections stored as DNG opcodes in that file, likely because iOS Settings > Camera > Lens Correction was disabled at the time of shooting. I've confirmed the same behavior on my iPhone 12 Pro Max.
Dear Victoria -- Thanks for getting this valuable confirmation from Adobe! Unfortunately my camera is, and has always been, set to apply lens corrections, as seen it this screen shot:
Partial Camera Settings.jpg
If it was disabled at the time of shooting, I have no idea how I might have done that inadvertently.

I've now upgraded my iPhone 13 Pro to iOS 16.1.1 and taken another pair of photos with the "Ultra-Wide" lens with special care to keeping the camera nearly motionless between JPEG and ProRaw shots. The next screen image shows a screen shot of the JPEG version in the Library tab of Lightroom Classic 12.0.1 in my Windows 10 (22H2) PC:
JPEG Same Scene.jpg

The final image shows the ProRaw version of the same shot in the Develop tab:
ProRaw Doesn't Appear to Have Lens Corrections.jpg

As you can see, Lightroom does not report that any lens correction has been applied. Switching back and forth between the two images, however, I cannot see any obvious differences in perspective or distortion (other than the expected lack of sharpening and color brightening in the latter image). Assuming the lens corrections were applied internally to the JPEG image, it appears that they were also applied (somewhere?!) to the DNG image.

I'm at a loss to understand what else I might be doing wrong. We've been over what settings I should have in the Edit/Preferences/Presets tab. All I can think of now is to send you my latest DNG file offline and see if you still find no lens corrections showing up in your Lightroom installation (on a Mac computer I presume). Alternatively (or in addition) you might send me a sample DNG file from the Ultra-Wide camera in your 12 Pro so I can try that out in my Lightroom installation. If nothing changes in either case, I guess Apple's Camera app in the 13 Pro must be at fault. Since neither of us has apparently heard similar complaints from other 13 Pro users, however, this last seems pretty unlikely!

Any other thoughts? -- jclarkw
 
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Like you note on your iPhone 13 Pro, my iPhone 12 Pro Max has 3 back cameras, but only two of them have Adobe-created lens profiles.
I think this is because the LR mobile app doesn't support DNG with the ultrawide lens, only JPEG.

Why is that? This old thread says Terry White at the 2019 Adobe Max said this was a limitation of the iPhone 11:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/comm...-with-iphone-11-max-lenses.38736/post-1255624

But the iPhone 12 Pro Max Camera app supports DNG with the ultrawide lens. So is this still a limitation of the iPhone or a failure by Adobe to update LR mobile?
 
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Nerdly curiosity got the better of me.

Using my wife's Iphone 12 Pro Max (Ios 16.1.1), a tripod, and the Iphone Camera app, I shot all combinations of ultrawide, wide, and telephoto, with lens corrections on and off, in HEIC and Proraw DNG. I also shot with the Lightroom app with wide and telephoto in DNG (it doesn't support ultrawide).

Observations:

- The Camera app applied lens corrections to the ultrawide HEIC and DNG only, not to the wide or telephoto photos.

- When the ultrawide DNG is edited in LR, it shows Built-in Lens Profile Applied, but the wide and telephoto DNGs do not.

- Exiftool shows lens opcodes (Opcode List 3) for the ultrawide DNG but not the wide or telephoto DNGs.

- The lens corrections for the ultrawide HEIC and DNG are moderately different.

(I had reported in another thread that someone claimed Apple support said the camera app doesn't apply lens corrections to Proraw DNG, but that's not what I observe here.)

You can download all 14 pics from here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/trpsho42c9ca7im/iphone-lens-corrections.2022.11.22.zip?dl=0

The photos have perspicuous names.
 
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...When the ultrawide DNG is edited in LR, it shows Built-in Lens Profile Applied, but the wide and telephoto DNGs do not.

- Exiftool shows lens opcodes (Opcode List 3) for the ultrawide DNG but not the wide or telephoto DNGs.

- The lens corrections for the ultrawide HEIC and DNG are moderately different.

(I had reported in another thread that someone claimed Apple support said the camera app doesn't apply lens corrections to Proraw DNG, but that's not what I observe here.)...
Dear johnrellis -- Thanks! Your observations on the Ultra-Wide in the 12 Pro Max seem to agree with my visual comparison above between HEIC and DNG images from the 13 Pro EXCEPT that, in my PC installation, Lightroom Classic 12.0.1 does NOT report lens corrections applied to the DNG in-camera. You say the opcodes are there, but Lightroom is apparently not picking them up. If that's only "a cosmetic issue" in Lightroom, as suggested earlier by Victoria and now by your results, that's fine, though all the confusion over this. Still not sure if all my settings are correct though...

I'm somewhat confused, however, that you mention LR mobile in your first post, whereas I'm using only the iPhone Camera app and Lightroom on PC. -- jclarkw
 
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you mention LR mobile in your first post
That was in response to Victoria's observation that there are no Adobe-provided lens profiles for the Iphone ultra-wide lens. In general, Adobe builds lens profiles by taking a raw photo of a test chart. When Adobe first started providing raw support for the Iphone, the Apple camera app didn't provide Proraw capability, so Adobe of course used the LR mobile camera function. The LR mobile camera app still doesn't support the ultra-wide lens, so it's not possible for Adobe to use it to make lens profiles for the ultra-wide lens.

Of course, they could now use the Apple camera app to take a Proraw DNG of the test chart with lens corrections off. But I'm guessing that Adobe didn't give this any thought -- they may not even be aware that the Apple camera app supports DNG with the ultra-wide lens with lens corrections disabled.

I've searched and can't find any authoritative information about why the LR mobile camera app doesn't support DNG with the ultra-wide lens.
 
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I've searched and can't find any authoritative information about why the LR mobile camera app doesn't support DNG with the ultra-wide lens.
It was a limitation early on, then it got fixed so LR's camera could shoot DNG with UW, then it got broken by iOS16 (you could select it but the picture didn't get saved) so they disabled it until Apple fix the issue.
 
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Perhaps upload a sample ultrawide DNG taken on your phone with Lens Corrections enabled? Use Dropbox, Google Drive, or similar and post the sharing link here.
Dear johnrellis -- After finally learning how to set up a free Web-based Dropbox account, I can now comply with your suggestion:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwpdfyfg1i5xmp2/IMG_0047.HEIC?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d4496khbrqpnfnq/IMG_0048.DNG?dl=0

These are HEIC and corresponding DNG from the ultra-wide camera on my iPhone 13 Pro of almost exactly the same scene, made with the iOS 16.1.1 built-in Camera app. (I don't have a tripod, so I propped the iPhone on the back of a chair and don't think I moved it.) During these photos I definitely had the lens-corrections setting turned on.

I haven't had time to carefully compare the photos that you shared -- the next question is what Windows 10 app to use for viewing then without it's introducing any unwanted changes (like applying lens corrections from the DNG file). I have "Paint" of course, the least sophisticated, plus "Photos" and maybe something else aside from Lightroom itself.

One thing I CAN tell you now is that my installation of Lightroom Classic 12.0.1 does NOT report "Built-in Lens Profile Applied" in Develop/Lens Corrections for my own DNG file (with or without a check in the "Enable Profile Corrections" box). On the other hand, your 12 Pro Max DNG files from the UW lens, both with AND WITHOUT(!) the lens-correction setting on the phone, DO so report. (Your files "lr_w.dng" and "lr_t.dng" also report it.) I don't know what this difference between cameras might mean, but perhaps you can report on my DNG with your Lightroom and with "Exiftool," whatever that is.

Cheers, and Happy Thanksgiving to All! -- jclarkw
 
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I examined those sample photos with both LR 12.0.1 and Exiftool, and the DNG definitely has no embedded lens profile:

1669430585786.png


I overlayed the two in Photoshop to make it easier to compare differences, as you can see in this screen recording:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ud2kifdd2p0dwf/iphone-13-heic-dng.2022.11.25.mp4?dl=0

While there were small differences that might be a difference in applied lens profiles, they were much smaller than what examples posted on the web would lead me to believe about the ultra-wide lens. They could just as likely (or more likely) be due to small shifts in camera position as you touched the camera.

Since the DNG doesn't contain any embedded lens profile, these small differences make me wonder if your phone isn't applying a lens profile to either the HEIC or the DNG, despite the setting of Lens Correction.

It remains curious...
 
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I examined those sample photos with both LR 12.0.1 and Exiftool, and the DNG definitely has no embedded lens profile...
Since the DNG doesn't contain any embedded lens profile, these small differences make me wonder if your phone isn't applying a lens profile to either the HEIC or the DNG, despite the setting of Lens Correction.

It remains curious...
johnrellis: Thanks VERY much for looking at this. (I haven't learned how to use Exiftool yet...) I have a call in to Apple tech support and will report if I get anything from them. Cheers! -- jclarkw
 
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...Since the DNG doesn't contain any embedded lens profile, these small differences make me wonder if your phone isn't applying a lens profile to either the HEIC or the DNG, despite the setting of Lens Correction.

It remains curious...
Everyone -- I just spoke at length with a very professional and apparently knowledgeable technical advisor at Apple Support. After confirming with the experts in the Creative and Imaging (or some such) group, he assured me that the 13 Pro camera app DOES apply lens corrections to BOTH HEIC and Pro-Raw (DNG) files from the "Ultra-Wide" lens before they leave the camera. (I did not ask specifically, but it appears this is also true for the the 14 Pro and for the "Selfie" camera.)

This would certainly explain why HEIC and DNG images look essentially identical (except for lack of some sharpening and color correction in the latter), both in the Windows 10 Photos app and in Lightroom. It also explains why the lens-correction op codes are not include in the DNG file and why Lightroom does not report "Built-in Lens Profile Applied" -- IT has not done so.

Unless anyone has evidence to the contrary (for the 13 pro or 14 Pro), I guess we have to take this as the final answer. -- jclarkw
 
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What they told you would imply that the handling of lens corrections with DNGs between models 12 and 13 has changed. With 12, my testing showed that the lens corrections were embedded in the DNG and would show up with Exiftool and in LR as "Built-in Lens Profile applied". But they're saying that with the 13 with Lens Corrections on, the Camera app is applying the corrections to the actual pixels of the image (as it does with HEICs), not embedding a profile in the DNG.

That's consistent with the sample you posted. But I can't discern Apple's rationale for which image-processing features are baked into the Proraw pixels (e.g. HDR and perhaps lens corrections) while others are not (e.g. noise reduction).

f you have the patience, run this test to confirm: Propping the camera on the chair, take two DNGs, one with Lens Corrections on and one with it off. Do the same with HEICs. Then share the four pics here via Dropbox. To quote my favorite president, "Trust but verify".
 
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