Confusion with Classic and Cloud

[ozanners]

Lightroom Version Number

Classic 13.1, LRCC 7.1.2

Operating System

1. macOS 14 Sonoma

Please help. I'm a bit confused.

I recently migrated my 4 most recent years of images from LR Classic in to LRCC on my computer to try and embrace the cloud side of things. I then deleted these images from my LR Classic catalog, but left the original RAW files in place on external HDD until I understood fully how it was going to work.

LR CC successfully imported the images, but in doing so made a duplicate of my originals in a new folder on the same external HDD as my main library. The folder set in LR CC preferences "Storage location for originals". (/Volumes/ExternalHDD/Lightroom CC/235f1634fb2a4a0da696a8d2af97c8b2/originals/2020/2020-01-20.

This folder structure has the same naming convention as Classic for the individual day folders, Year-Month-Day, so I wondered if it could have avoided the duplication and just referenced the originals. But I figured there must be a reason so I pressed on.

The originals all upload to the cloud and are available on web and mobile apps.

Then on subsequent syncing of Classic, Classic is now redownloadinga further copy of the originals in to a THIRD location. The folder set in Classic's sync preferences "specify location for Lightroom's synced images:" Again I set this to another folder the same external HDD. But this time with the path /Volumes/ExternalHDD/Lightroom/Cloud Originals/2023/01-20 (Note year is missing from the days folder names.)

So, now I have three copies of 820GB worth of RAW images files. I assume I only really need one.

Which two can I delete to free up this space? My guess is I should keep the third copy of the Originals most recently downloaded by Classic, but please tell me if I am wrong.

And can anyone tell me why this is done in this manner? Days worth of copying and uploading and redownloading when it could simply have referenced the images in their very original location, and kept the folder naming consistent.

I'm baffled. But maybe I am missing something.

Thanks

 

[Jim Wilde]

Lightroom by design stores all your images in the cloud, Lightroom Classic can only reference images that are stored on local drives, it cannot directly reference images that are stored by Lightroom in the cloud. If the user chooses to sync LrC with the cloud, by design a copy of ALL the images that have been stored in the cloud will automatically be downloaded by LrC and stored on a local drive. So immediately you have two copies, one in the cloud managed by Lightroom, the other on a local drive managed by LrC.

A third copy is a result of the way that the Lightroom desktop application is designed. When the user imports images via the Lightroom desktop app (and in this context catalog migration is essentially the same as "import"), Lightroom first copies those images into the location specified in the Lightroom preferences, and it's from that location that the images are then uploaded to the cloud. Once successfully uploaded to the cloud, that local copy becomes eligible for deletion (unless the user used the option in Preferences >Cache tab to "Store a copy of all originals"), but that automatic deletion is governed by some apparently complex rules which can mean that it may takes months before Lightroom will delete a locally stored copy. Also understand that even when an image is NOT stored locally, doing certain things in Lightroom desktop will require that a copy of the cloud master is downloaded and stored locally again, which then becomes subject to the same deletion rules. Many users have in fact already used the option to "Store a copy of all originals", primarily for backup purposes.

So, that third copy might be a permanent full copy of the cloud-based originals if that option has been used, otherwise it will expand and contract over time depending on the way you use the Lightroom desktop app, FWIW, I don't use that "Store a copy of all originals" option , I'm happy to let Lightroom manage that "third copy" and I hardly ever query the size/contents of that local location.

You also have your 4th copy (third on the local system), which is the original set of images that you removed from your Lightroom Classic catalog, which would now not be managed by either version of Lightroom....so it's up to you to decide what to do with that copy. If you are happy that your copy in the cloud and your copy in the new LrC catalog is complete (and that you have a backup process in place for the LrC-based images), then it should be OK to delete that 4th copy from your system. Deleting the Lightroom desktop's local copy can also be considered if you need the space, otherwise it would be best to leave that alone and let the Lightroom desktop app manage its reduction over time.

It's worth mentioning at this point that Adobe's intention with the catalog migration function in the Lightroom desktop app was that it would be a one way thing, i.e. LrC user is switching permanently to Lightroom cloud. But on re-reading your post again, can you clarify how you "migrated" in the first place? Did you use the Lightroom desktop app's catalog migration function, or something else? Then going forward, which app are you expecting to use on your desktop system, LrC or Lightroom? Depending on how you intend to work, it may be there are other options which can be used to help manage the amount of space used locally.

 

[ozanners]

Thanks Jim, thats helpful, I think I was kind of already close to this understanding.

I migrated by exporting individual year collections from Classic as catalogs and then used Lightroom desktop to "Migrate" these catalogs in. I assume this is similar to what happens when I would import new images from my camera. I understand that these originals then go to the cloud, but when do you specify to remove any local copies?

What I want to achieve is the following:

Images from 2020 onwards are fully using the cloud and I will use Lightroom Desktop and mobile apps exclusively to manage, import, cull, and edit and try to remain within my 1TB limit from now on. The "one way thing" you refer to?

I then want Classic to remain as my archive of images from 2019 and earlier, originals on local HDD, and smart previews in the cloud. If there was an option not to have the cloud originals of 2020 onward reimported back in to Classic I would have chosen it. BUT do have the HDD space so I will leave it as is, and if I understand what you said this will shrink and/or grow as I delete unwanted and/or add new images to Lightroom via desktop or mobile apps.

To be clear I have not checked the option to "Store a copy of all originals" in Lightroom desktop. And I am happy not to have this local copy, so I can happily delete the copy made at time of migration.

And since 2020 onwards is now cloud based I think I can confidently delete the original RAW files from my Classic library. Can I deleted the copies made during migration as well?

I would be comfortable with the following:

2020 onwards cloud based copies, and a local copy in Classic that will mirror what is on the cloud as it changes. No other local copies of 2020 onwards would be needed.

And then a single local copy of the 2008 to 2019 originals in my Classic catalog and library on my external HDD, smart previews synced to the cloud. (originals backed up with my previous strategies).

To get there, would simply deleting the 2 unnecessary copies from my local file system achieve this? In Classic, yes, I am comfortable with this, but how do I do this in Lightroom desktop without deleting them from the library?

Thanks again.

 

[Jim Wilde]

What I would do:

1. Make sure I was regularly backing up the LrC catalog AND the images that are referenced by that catalog.
2. Delete the original images from 2020 onwards that you removed from LrC prior to migrating them to the cloud. Those images already exist in the cloud and a copy has been downloaded via Sync back into your LrC catalog photo library (but point 1 refers).
3. Leave the locally stored Lightroom images alone, let Lightroom manage those copies. Over time the least used ones will be removed from that local cache. Yes, it is possible to manually remove some or all of them, but I don't recommend it as I'm not sure how Lightroom will react (it used to be no problem, but I've seen a couple of recent reports where it appeared to cause issues).

In summary, you would end up with a complete set of cloud originals on your local hard drive, managed by LrC and backed up by you. There would be a partial and fluctuating set of the cloud originals also stored on your local hard drive, but in a different location and managed by the Lightroom desktop app.

 

[ozanners]

Yes, I think thats what I'm going to do. Thanks.

Since HDD space isn't too much of a worry for now I'll just delete the one set of truly superfluous originals (2020 onwards) from the Classic Catalog/Library and then let LrC and Lr Desktop do their thing. Trust the Adobe engineer's system and see how I get on.

Reading around it online it seems migrated/imported images are sticking around for a while, so I will keep an eye on it. I have had a couple of weeks of second guessing it all, so I'm going to let it take the reigns and as you said, keep making current backups of the LrC catalog and originals.

Thanks again for helping to clarify it.

 

[Jim Wilde]

Reading around it online it seems migrated/imported images are sticking around for a while, so I will keep an eye on it.

Yes, they can hang around for a while, but I do think they've tightened up the "rules" so it now might not be too bad. I have just over 600GB stored in the cloud, but there's now only 31GB of images in the local location (and 28GB of that is from 2023, which is no surprise).