Confused by scope of "Backup Location"

[Andrew1]

When I visit "Edit | Catalog Settings | Backup ....." and specify a location for my backups, am I
(A) setting a location specific to the current catalog? (each catalog has its own backup location) or
(B) setting a location specific to the current installation of Lightroom? (all backups of all catalogs go to the last location specified)

The fact that I am in a "Catalog Settings" dialog would suggest (A),

but I've currently got several catalogs on the go, for different purposes, and their backups seem to be ending up in each-other's specified locations, which suggests (B) and they're ALL just going wherever I specified last time.

Option (B) is also hinted at by the fact that all the instructions I've read for renaming/moving catalogs never even hints at the need to change the name of a backup location to match.

Or is there in fact an option (C) which I haven't even thought of?

Regards, Andrew.

 

[Hal P Anderson]

Andrew,

Hmmm...unless 6.1 is different than 6.3 or any other version of LR that I can remember, the only place you can specify a location for catalogue backups is when exiting a catalogue and you get the Back Up Catalogue dialogue box:

I don't see anywhere in the Catalogue Settings window where you can set a location.

That said, yes, the backup locations are specific to the various catalogues. Choice A.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

(A) as answered by Hal..
Hint: Set the Catalog Preferences [ALT+CTRL+, ] to "Back up the Catalog....every time Lightroom exits."
In the "Catalog Backup" dialog you [Choose] where you want the Catalog Backup- specific to the catalog you are exiting.
Also "Test" and "Optimize" regularly! (maybe not every time you backup the catalog.

Never leave the Backup Folder set to the default that is set when you install LR- it places the folder next to the catalog. This is the worst place a backup can be if the location of the catalog becomes hardware corrupt by disk failure etc.!

 

[vloris]

Never leave the Backup Folder set to the default that is set when you install LR- it places the folder next to the catalog. This is the worst place a backup can be if the location of the catalog becomes hardware corrupt by disk failure etc.!

Well that's a bit harsh... I sure hope that this is not the only way you are backing up your catalog and photos?

I have Lightroom write the backups there where it defaults to: next to the catalog. That's perfectly fine for me: I want this backup mostly to protect my catalog against lightroom itself corrupting it.
I use Time Machine to backup everything on my harddrive on a regular basis to an external drive: this includes the Lightroom catalog and the Lightroom catalog backups.

The only thing I have to do myself is remove old backups after a while, because Lightroom doesn't do that for me.

 

[Jim Wilde]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

A bit harsh? Maybe, for users like yourself who have more understanding of the need for (and have implemented) a more comprehensive backup plan....but sadly there are far too many users who either don't take any backups, or at best only use Lightroom to backup the catalog to the default location. For such users, I-S-L's advice is a good starting point.

Like you, I only use the LR catalog backup process to protect against corruption and stupid user error, all my system-wide "disaster recovery" backups encompass both the catalog and it's backups. I used to leave the backup location as per the default, i.e. adjacent to the catalog itself, until I figured that I'd feel pretty silly if my catalog drive crashed a few days after my last "system backup" had run and I'd lost those few days worth of updates (even though I might have taken an LR catalog backup). So now I have indeed separated by catalog and its backups onto separate drives.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I'd feel pretty silly if my catalog drive crashed a few days after my last "system backup" had run and I'd lost those few days worth of updates.

A few days between system backups? I believe Windows 10 has an 'Apple Time Machine like' built-in backup, that runs every hour.

 

[Jim Wilde]

To be honest, with the amount of data I add or change these days (most of which I keep in Dropbox anyway), I'd find running backups with that frequency to be complete over-kill. YMMV, of course.

 

[tspear]

To be honest, with the amount of data I add or change these days (most of which I keep in Dropbox anyway), I'd find running backups with that frequency to be complete over-kill. YMMV, of course.

Like Timemachine, it is all incremental and runs in the background.
Generally you never notice.

Tim

 

[Jim Wilde]

Thanks, I'm sure it's very clever....but not something I feel the need for at this time.

 

[Rob_Cullen]

I sure hope that this is not the only way you are backing up

Absolutely!! The OP question was about the Catalog.
Backup of Photos, Preferences, Settings, etc,--is a whole new chapter.
I concur with Jim's comments.:nod:

 

[Andrew1]

Andrew,

Hmmm...unless 6.1 is different than 6.3 or any other version of LR that I can remember, the only place you can specify a location for catalogue backups is when exiting a catalogue and you get the Back Up Catalogue dialogue box:


I don't see anywhere in the Catalogue Settings window where you can set a location.

That said, yes, the backup locations are specific to the various catalogues. Choice A.

Thanks Hal,

I appear to have inadvertently started a war about backup schemes.

Agreed that you don't set the backup location "in" the Catalogue Settings dialogue, but you do have to go through there to set the backup schedule to "next time I exit" such that the "backup location dialogue" will, eventually, appear. I'm sure that Adobe have their reasons for not making it easier to set up. Anyway...

Thanks for the reassurance that these locations are supposed to be catalogue specific, clearly the fact that mine are behaving oddly must be down to some sort of user error. I'll watch myself more closely for the next couple of runs.

Regards, Andrew.

 

[LouieSherwin]

Hi,

I am going to take the opportunity to make some points regarding backups not only relevant to the current discussion but also to a wider audience.

Several times a year or so we get a request on the forum of some unlucky person explaining that their hard drive has crashed or that the accidentally erased their entire pictures folder and emptied the trash and what can they to. In these cases the unfortunate answer is usually nothing. The only solution is to put in place a good, automated backup plan now, otherwise it will be too late when you need it.

I would make the case from personal experience of the value of a frequent ongoing system wide backup. About a year ago I had my system SSD fail and instantly erase my whole system disk. From TimeMachine I was able to restore my entire system disk to an new hard drive in several hours and be back up and running the same day. This included all my Lightroom catalogs and their backup since I keep them on my SSD.

The overhead of a solid incremental backup system like TimeMachine is negligible. I am only aware it is running when I hear the backup drive start up. I also really like that it is automatic and I don't have to remember when I ran my last backup. I have had occasion to reach back in time to grab an individual file or two that either I erased or was otherwise corrupted. I would strongly encourage everyone to have a similar automated system wide backup in place because you don't know when you will need it and otherwise if you do it will be too late.

The importance of an incremental backup system cannot be over stated. Some disk failures are not instantaneous but are either intermittent or perhaps due to a part of the hard drive that is not able to record. Individual files start to get corrupted but you have no idea this is happening. If you simply do a copy or clone style backup you can over write the last good copy of a file before you discover you have a problem. An incremental backup gives you the opportunity to look back in the history of changes to a point where a good copy of the corrupted file exists.

For catastrophic protection I also use a cloud backup service to backup all my personal data including all my images. I use CrashPlan although there are several other good options. Make sure that the cloud based backup services that you choose is also real "backup systems" that do incremental back ups. So only the changes are uploaded across the network. I do not backup my entire system because I don't think it is necessary, In the unlikely event of a flood, fire or other such disaster I will probably restarting with a brand new computer anyway.

-louie

 

[clee01l]

This is so important that it needs repeating and in bold typeface
I concur with everything Louie has said. "I've lost my photos" is probably the most frequent user post in some form or other. Having an incremental system wide backup in place can not be overstated.
If you are an OS X user and don't take advantage of the FREE TimeMachine system back up app, you are being very foolhardy. It will back up your critical user data on your Primary HDD by simply turning it on and pointing it to a target EHD. I read here recently that Windows 10 has a similar system backup. To this I say "it's about time!!"
Requiring a little more effort to set up, there is Crashplan as Louie mentioned. It is a free app for backing up to a local or network EHD. There is an unlimited clouds backup service also offered by CrashPlan that will backup unlimited amounts of critical user data for a nominal annual fee.

If you read this and still don't take advantage of a system backup of critical user data, don't expect any sympathy when you come here looking for a solution.

Hi,

I am going to take the opportunity to make some points regarding backups not only relevant to the current discussion but also to a wider audience.

Several times a year or so we get a request on the forum of some unlucky person explaining that their hard drive has crashed or that the accidentally erased their entire pictures folder and emptied the trash and what can they to. In these cases the unfortunate answer is usually nothing. The only solution is to put in place a good, automated backup plan now, otherwise it will be too late when you need it.

I would make the case from personal experience of the value of a frequent ongoing system wide backup. About a year ago I had my system SSD fail and instantly erase my whole system disk. From TimeMachine I was able to restore my entire system disk to an new hard drive in several hours and be back up and running the same day. This included all my Lightroom catalogs and their backup since I keep them on my SSD.

The overhead of a solid incremental backup system like TimeMachine is negligible. I am only aware it is running when I hear the backup drive start up. I also really like that it is automatic and I don't have to remember when I ran my last backup. I have had occasion to reach back in time to grab an individual file or two that either I erased or was otherwise corrupted. I would strongly encourage everyone to have a similar automated system wide backup in place because you don't know when you will need it and otherwise if you do it will be too late.

The importance of an incremental backup system cannot be over stated. Some disk failures are not instantaneous but are either intermittent or perhaps due to a part of the hard drive that is not able to record. Individual files start to get corrupted but you have no idea this is happening. If you simply do a copy or clone style backup you can over write the last good copy of a file before you discover you have a problem. An incremental backup gives you the opportunity to look back in the history of changes to a point where a good copy of the corrupted file exists.

For catastrophic protection I also use a cloud backup service to backup all my personal data including all my images. I use CrashPlan although there are several other good options. Make sure that the cloud based backup services that you choose is also real "backup systems" that do incremental back ups. So only the changes are uploaded across the network. I do not backup my entire system because I don't think it is necessary, In the unlikely event of a flood, fire or other such disaster I will probably restarting with a brand new computer anyway.

-louie

 

[PhilBurton]

Hi,

I am going to take the opportunity to make some points regarding backups not only relevant to the current discussion but also to a wider audience.

The importance of an incremental backup system cannot be over stated. Some disk failures are not instantaneous but are either intermittent or perhaps due to a part of the hard drive that is not able to record. Individual files start to get corrupted but you have no idea this is happening. If you simply do a copy or clone style backup you can over write the last good copy of a file before you discover you have a problem. An incremental backup gives you the opportunity to look back in the history of changes to a point where a good copy of the corrupted file exists.


-louie

I agree with Louie here. (My highlighting of his quote.) His post is spot-on. A clone backup like Acronis is false security.

Several times in just the past month, I have had to retrieve 2011 or 2012 versions of files that are still on my system. I use Retrospect Professional. It's not cheap, but it really gets the job done. www.retrospect.com. The Professional version includes backup for the system it is installed on, plus five additional systems, so I can back up my entire home LAN. I use a new backup HDD every year, and my "archive" is a collection of HDDs in anti-static bags, labelled of course.

Phil Burton

 

[rob211]

Thanks guys; people search here for advice so it IS worth repeating and highlighting.

Unfortunately sometimes I think we who give advice confuse matters for people, descending into arcane discussions of RAID 0 vs JBOD and so on. That has it's place, but for many people the priority is to get something going.

For Mac users, I agree to start with Time Machine. A versioning, inclusive solution like TM will cover you for most all eventualities. It may not be ideal in situations where an archive, or clone, would be better, or where a non-backup redundant system like a RAID would be nice, but it's gonna Just Work. It's where Mac users should start until they have, and understand, the need for other solutions.

The other big advantage of TM is that it is one of the best ways to migrate to a new system and/or new machine. And probably the fastest. So not just a backup system in that regard.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

Someone pointed out a very interesting oversight today, in the most popular LR book on the market. The author doesn't think to recommend backing up the photos. He only recommends using the Second Copy for backup. I think we've just found the cause of all of the people trying to restore from Second Copy backups.

 

[rob211]

Someone pointed out a very interesting oversight today, in the most popular LR book on the market. The author doesn't think to recommend backing up the photos. He only recommends using the Second Copy for backup. I think we've just found the cause of all of the people trying to restore from Second Copy backups.

I appreciate the discretion, but someone should contact that author and have them either correct or clarify that.

I'm not sure what else Adobe could do to clarify it; their documentation seems to make it pretty clear. I think a photo-specific backup utility that works well with Lr and/or other DAM/PIE programs would be a great tool for people, given how many questions we see on this. Perhaps it's that people treat their photo files differently than their other computer files and don't have a comprehensive backup solution for both, I dunno.

 

[gpsmikey]

On the PC side of things, I have had good results with SyncBackPro from 2BrightSparks for dealing with incremental backups of both catalogs as well as photos. I periodically image the system drive with Image4Windows, but use SyncBack for photos and other stuff on the other drives (actually to two different locations - 1) another physical drive in my system and 2) across my network to a Linux (Ubuntu) machine. One thing that is very important to consider with backups is the difference between a partition and a disk drive - a drive can have multiple partitions on it (labeled C, D, E etc.) If a hard drive crashes, you may well lose all data on it (which could include multiple partitions). It is important that your backups go to at least a different physical drive in your system, not just a different partition on the same drive. Backups should also periodically go to a physically different system (I had a power supply in my daughters old computer fail and it exploded several chips on the hard drive controller as well as most of the other cards in the system). There are two types of people out there - those that have backups and those that wish they had ...

How to determine your configuration in windows (well, up through windows7 anyway - assume 10 is similar). RIGHT click on "Computer" on your desktop, select "Manage" then click "disk management" - it will populate an image showing the different drives in your system and what partitions are on what drives.

 

[davidedric]

Let me make sure that I've got this right.

I don't write to .xmp files, only to the catalogue. As I understand it, that means the image files never change, so after a shoot I will have one copy on my mirrored disks, one on an external hdd, and one in the cloud on Crashplan (once my "broad"band cranks through them) and that's it.

As discussed, the catalogue is a different matter. I have the catalogue on ssd, backups on internal hdd, a Crashplan copy, and a periodic manual copy onto external hdd when I cull the backups.

I think I am OK (until Crashplan stops trading :surprised: )

Dave

 

[gpsmikey]

Maybe Assuming you are using the defaults, then correct, all changes and develop stuff etc. is only written to the catalog. However, you can turn on the option to also automatically write stuff to the xmp (or dng files if you are using dng). You can also manually tell it to write to the files (I forget the shortcut). Initially I thought that was what I wanted until someone pointed out that if you have it automatically write to the xmp (or dng) files, then each time you do something that affects those files (new keyword etc.) you will trigger your backup software to think all those files have changed and can get surprised with gigabytes of backups. Just something to consider.

mikey

 

[LouieSherwin]

Maybe Assuming you are using the defaults, then correct, all changes and develop stuff etc. is only written to the catalog. However, you can turn on the option to also automatically write stuff to the xmp (or dng files if you are using dng). You can also manually tell it to write to the files (I forget the shortcut). Initially I thought that was what I wanted until someone pointed out that if you have it automatically write to the xmp (or dng) files, then each time you do something that affects those files (new keyword etc.) you will trigger your backup software to think all those files have changed and can get surprised with gigabytes of backups. Just something to consider.

mikey

If you are using raw files (not DNG) then the resulting updates to the xmp sidecar files relatively low cost in term of the performance of your backups. Yes all files that are changed by will be backed up again but xmp files are small text files and backups can be accomplished very quickly either locally or over a WAN to to a cloud service.


Something you should keep in mind when considering any significant reorganization of your Folders. That is any changes you make in your Folders panel or any file renaming will also trigger a backup of all the effected files whether or not the actual file content was changed. For example changing the name of the top level folder will trigger a backup of every image in your catalog. This can have a significant effect on cloud based backups.

-louie