Compare denoise in Lrc, Topaz and Photoshop

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adonetok

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Compare denoise in Lrc, Topaz and Photoshop, which one is the best?

I use denoise in Topaz (From Lrc) before.

I am learning Ps now.

Is denoise in Ps really better than Topaz?
 
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adonetok said:
Compare denoise in Lrc, Topaz and Photoshop, which one is the best?

I use denoise in Topaz (From Lrc) before.

I am learning Ps now.

Is denoise in Ps really better than Topaz?
Click to expand...

I’ve not used DeNoise in Photoshop. I would expect it to be the same code as DeNoise in LrC. I have used DeNoise in Topaz PhotoAI. The Adobe product only works on RAW files If I have a non RAW file in LrC I send it to Topaz.


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adonetok said:
Is denoise in Ps really better than Topaz?
Click to expand...

Depends ;-) On your preferences regarding the look of a denoised image, perhaps your camera etc etc.

A considerable part of my photography is wildlife and I'm using Olympus / OM System cameras with a small (crop-2) sensor. Inevitably I always had the strong desire to remove noise, I started with Topaz Denoise/Sharpen, added DxO Deep Prime, finally Adobe caught up with AI Denoise.

Today, for 90% of my images that need NR I use AI Denoise. It is quite simple to use and delivers excellent results. What I don't like about Topaz Photo AI is that AutoPilot mostly suggests too aggressive settings - finding the proper settings to create a similar quality as AI Denoise and not overdo requires tweaking which takes time (the more, the less powerful your GPU is)

Last summer I shot a hedgehog in my garden after sunset at ISO 20.000, an image full of noise and lacking fine details. I used this image to compare the outputs of all the methods. In full view they were practically the same. In 100% view it was obvious that one program did better here and the other better there.

There is one think, Topaz can do better, though - I appreciate the Sharpen Lens blur / Motion blur feature to rescue technical imperfect shots where I'm hesitating to ditch them because the subject or scene is so precious.
 
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I was not aware of an AI managed DeNoise in Photoshop. And I can't find one. The Noise filter in PS appears unchanged from previous versions.

My original statement still holds Lightroom Classic only works with RAW files and this is preferable to me than shelling out to another program for Noise managment. That said If I need NR on a non RAW image I have to go to Topaz Photo AI.
 
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adonetok said:
Is denoise in Ps really better than Topaz?
Click to expand...
It's a mute point now. Denoise is no longer available. They discontinued it, and some others, and rolled them into Photo AI. I just discovered this today when I went to update Topaz Sharpening.
 
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Paul_DS256 said:
It's a mute point now. Denoise is no longer available. They discontinued it, and some others, and rolled them into Photo AI. I just discovered this today when I went to update Topaz Sharpening.
Click to expand...
ALL of the Topaz products except GigaPixel have been superseded by Topaz PhotoAI.
 
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I often use both LR’s denoise and the denoise option in Topaz AI. I start with LR and then send the file to Topaz. I am mightily impressed what the combination can accomplish with some extremely noisy files.
 
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clee01l said:
Who uses ACR when you have ACR built into LrC with a better UI?
Click to expand...
I do. May not count for much, but I do. I like to open my raw files from Adobe Bridge, and they open in Adobe Camera Raw. I can do the same with JPEGs and TIFs if I have a need.

ACR's user interface for developing a photo seems to be a dead ringer for the user interface for developing a photo in Lightroom (desktop, not Classic).
 
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karl.nyhus said:
I do. May not count for much, but I do
Click to expand...
I have one and only one DAM tool. It is Lightroom Classic. I do not need another DAM too handling my images. Using more than one DAM tool means that you then have to manage image in more than one place.
I don't use Apple's Photos app or Bridge or On1 Photo RAW 2024 or Topaz Photo AI even though I have all 4 apps. Of the other DAM tools only ON1 , and Topaz are installed. These and Photoshop 2024 are used as needed using the Edit -in function in Lightroom which then is able to manage the the derivative image files returned from the supplemental editors.
 
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I know quite a few people who don't like or need LrC's library concept and hence manage their images in folders using Bridge and edit in PS/ACR.

As they say "all roads lead to Rome", there are different workflows fulfilling different needs and preferences. It's good that Adobe's tools do support this!
 
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I am a member of a fairly large camera club and we have a varied mix of skills and experiences, My experience has been that people who have traditionally used Photoshop are happy to stay in that world and often are defensive (or some even hostile) to the concept of using Lr . I have no issue with this as they have evolved their workflow to suit their needs.

On the other end of the scale, we have new members who have a lot of difficulty grasping the library / catalog concept that. I understand their situation as often such beginners are also new to jpgs, tiffs and psds, colour profile, ideas of resolution, bit depth and so much more. They have a lot to grasp even before they wonder into the delights of their camera settings.

There are aspects of Adobe’s approach and priorities that I would do different, but I am very pleased that we have a heavy weight profit making org actively driving the ongoing evolution of Lr and Photoshop.

I think it is healthy we have other third party players… who have the opportunity to specialise in certain areas… which in turn pushes Adobe to extend their toolkit.

Ai Denoise and evolution of ai based filters are significant developments and allow a lot of even very experienced Photoshop experts avoid a round trip to Photoshop.

I like the expression …’All roads lead to Rome’ ….
 
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I don't have tunnel-vision where Lightroom Classic is concerned. I enjoy understanding and using all of the ways that Adobe makes their photo tools available to me: Lightroom Classic, Lightroom (cloud/desktop/mobile/web), Photoshop/Adobe Camera Raw, and Adobe Bridge/Adobe Camera Raw. They all share the Camera Raw engine in common and are only a menu selection, a button-press, or a double-click away from each other, given the right settings. I like having a choice of approaches.
 
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KarstenG said:
I know quite a few people who don't like or need LrC's library concept and hence manage their images in folders using Bridge and edit in PS/ACR.
Click to expand...
So, these are not LrC users. I don't have a problem with that either. Apple's Photos app or Bridge or On1 Photo RAW 2024 or Topaz Photo AI are all DAM tools that can do the job. As I said earlier use only one DAM tool, I don't care which one it is, just don't try to manage your images with several DAM tools. I think that is a recipe for trouble.
 
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Paul_DS256 said:
It's a mute point now. Denoise is no longer available. They discontinued it, and some others, and rolled them into Photo AI. I just discovered this today when I went to update Topaz Sharpening.
Click to expand...
Yep. You can still download it or the others if you have legal licences. However the last update for DeNoise (3.7.2) was in Feb of 2023 and will never see another update. Photo AI about $200 unless you get or wait for a deal from Topaz.

Adobe Denoise AI is essentially free and will continue to get updates.
 
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KarstenG said:
Depends ;-) On your preferences regarding the look of a denoised image, perhaps your camera etc etc.

A considerable part of my photography is wildlife and I'm using Olympus / OM System cameras with a small (crop-2) sensor. Inevitably I always had the strong desire to remove noise, I started with Topaz Denoise/Sharpen, added DxO Deep Prime, finally Adobe caught up with AI Denoise.

Today, for 90% of my images that need NR I use AI Denoise. It is quite simple to use and delivers excellent results. What I don't like about Topaz Photo AI is that AutoPilot mostly suggests too aggressive settings - finding the proper settings to create a similar quality as AI Denoise and not overdo requires tweaking which takes time (the more, the less powerful your GPU is)

Last summer I shot a hedgehog in my garden after sunset at ISO 20.000, an image full of noise and lacking fine details. I used this image to compare the outputs of all the methods. In full view they were practically the same. In 100% view it was obvious that one program did better here and the other better there.

There is one think, Topaz can do better, though - I appreciate the Sharpen Lens blur / Motion blur feature to rescue technical imperfect shots where I'm hesitating to ditch them because the subject or scene is so precious.
Click to expand...
I had Topaz DeNoise and Sharpen. I got a decent deal for Photo AI so I got it. Next spring Adobe released Denoise AI. I removed DXO PureRaw, ON1 and all Topaz products off my system except for Topaz Sharpen AI. The last update was in March of 2022 (4.1.0) but a mature product which I use only if I really need it. Like you the file has to be special. I'm hoping Adobe some day adds something similar for LrC.
 
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Just to sum things I must have watched every LrC vs DXO vs Topaz video out there after Adobe Denoise AI was released. Without out getting into a lot of details there were several similar conclusions. If you already own a 3rd party NR app use what works best for you. If not you might want to consider saving your money.

If you need debluring ON1 - NoNoise now also has Tack Sharp AI and is half the cost of Photo AI. I'd still wait a few months to see what LrC 14 (and the new ACR) has to offer.
 
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gYab61zH said:
I often use both LR’s denoise and the denoise option in Topaz AI. I start with LR and then send the file to Topaz. I am mightily impressed what the combination can accomplish with some extremely noisy files.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "combination?" On the same file?
 
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I try Denoise in Lrc but it takes too long to complete it.
I try Topaz photo AI but I don't realy like it.
So, I think that I will stay in Lrc for basic edit and export to Topaz denoise and sharpen if neccesary.
Most time ( 99%) I took photos for birds.
Except those tools, what reason should I need to learn Photoshop?
 
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adonetok said:
I try Denoise in Lrc but it takes too long to complete it.
Click to expand...
How long approx does one photo need to denoise in LrC? And what's the time required for this by Denoise?
I'm asking because I have recently upgraded my GPU and found that all denoise tools (LrC, DxO and Topaz) need similar time - which depends on GPU power,

Birds are a major subject in my photography as well. I only go to PS if there is a need to remove complex distractions that LrC cannot handle. However, LrC is getting better and better in this, so the need to take my bird photos to PS is getting less.
 
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KarstenG said:
How long approx does one photo need to denoise in LrC? And what's the time required for this by Denoise?
I'm asking because I have recently upgraded my GPU and found that all denoise tools (LrC, DxO and Topaz) need similar time - which depends on GPU power,

Birds are a major subject in my photography as well. I only go to PS if there is a need to remove complex distractions that LrC cannot handle. However, LrC is getting better and better in this, so the need to take my bird photos to PS is getting less.
Click to expand...
I have barely used PS since LrC11 .
 
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Gnits said:
I am a member of a fairly large camera club and we have a varied mix of skills and experiences, My experience has been that people who have traditionally used Photoshop are happy to stay in that world and often are defensive (or some even hostile) to the concept of using Lr . I have no issue with this as they have evolved their workflow to suit their needs.

On the other end of the scale, we have new members who have a lot of difficulty grasping the library / catalog concept that. I understand their situation as often such beginners are also new to jpgs, tiffs and psds, colour profile, ideas of resolution, bit depth and so much more. They have a lot to grasp even before they wonder into the delights of their camera settings.

There are aspects of Adobe’s approach and priorities that I would do different, but I am very pleased that we have a heavy weight profit making org actively driving the ongoing evolution of Lr and Photoshop.

I think it is healthy we have other third party players… who have the opportunity to specialise in certain areas… which in turn pushes Adobe to extend their toolkit.

Ai Denoise and evolution of ai based filters are significant developments and allow a lot of even very experienced Photoshop experts avoid a round trip to Photoshop.

I like the expression …’All roads lead to Rome’ ….
Click to expand...
I think some of that defensive nature comes from other forum sites where you see people who don't like Adobe. I don't really care until they get into the area of Adobe owners who aren't smart enough to realize what they got into and blindly pay subscription fees for no value.

The library/catalogue is a learning curve. I think the key misunderstanding is the files are the catalogue, LrC creates duplicate set when importing and moves/hides them somewhere.

As for competition - it is good for everyone.
 
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I have met lots of people, serious amateur photographers… who will not entertain Lightroom and are totally happy with Photoshop (ie they do not want to consider an alternative).

On the other hand most new club members have heard of Photoshop (ie verb / noun) but have no concept of resolution, bit depth, colour space, never mind understand layers, curves, brushes, etc. The same new members have no concept of a catalog either, but I sense they find it easier to start with Lr than Photoshop.

I was expecting new members would be swamping the club status quo with mobile / cloud based toolset, but most (for now) run with Mac or Win devices.

I will be running an intro to Lr for new members over the next few months, so I will have better frontline experience by then.

Most of the people I meet have no awareness of forums or experience of Adobe hostility… but most of the experienced members have loads of ideas on what needs to be improved.

Ever evolving.
 
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