Classic ignores sidecars when importing from networked drive?

[rob211]

Lightroom Version Number

9.2

Operating System

1. macOS 10.15 Catalina

I have a WD My Passport Pro drive. I was using it as a networked drive recently; basically it has a build in router and the drive mounts on my system (macOS) just like any shared network drive. I had added some keywords, etc to the raw images and therefore had the raws+sidecars on that drive. All normal.

When I pointed Classic to the WD and imported via "Copy" I noticed it apparently ignored the sidecars when it did so; none of the added metadata was present in Lr. The images were file on the network drive, and after copying to my boot drive and importing via an "Add" Lr saw the sidecars and added the metadata per usual.

So, does Classic ignore sidecars upon importing from certain media? yes, I can surely get the images to a local drive easily enough, but for purposes of future workflow, and to prevent me from trying to find out if something was wrong, I'd like to know if it's just a feature.

 

[Jim Wilde]

I just tried that procedure (importing with Copy from my NAS drive), and it all worked as expected....XMP sidecar files were copied and read, all metadata included during the import.

So I can't explain your results, sorry.

 

[Paul_DS256]

Did you confirm

none of the added metadata was present in Lr.

Did you confirm the contents of the XMP file? It's a readable XML based file type.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I remember that there was a problem with XMP files on a network drive. These files become case-sensitive, so you could already have a .XMP sidecar file, and then Lightroom would create a .xmp sidecar file next to that when you use Cmd-S (or vice versa, I don't remember the details). Maybe this is part of that problem.

 

[clee01l]

I had added some keywords, etc to the raw images and therefore had the raws+sidecars on that drive. All normal.

How did you create the sidecars files? The only apps that create sidecar XMP files are from Adobe, specifically Lightroom and Photoshop and Bridge though there may be other Adobe apps that I don't use that do.

What proprietary file format were thee RAW files? The image files need to be Proprietary RAW format otherwise Lightroom import will ignore any Sidecar file that could contain data in an AMP section within the source file.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I found the thread on that case-sensitive problem: XMP files and Photomechanic

 

[Gnits]

A few extra points to note.
1. Check if Lr imported the data from the Xmp files, but decided it did not need to copy the Xmp files. I am not sure about this, but worth checking.
2. Third party products can also create xmp files. For example, using PhotoMechanic(PM) to ingest images from cards to disk can create XMP files if you want PM to apply metadata fields such as Title, Caption, etc. to raw image.

 

[rob211]

Did you confirm

Did you confirm the contents of the XMP file? It's a readable XML based file type.

Yes.

How did you create the sidecars files? The only apps that create sidecar XMP files are from Adobe, specifically Lightroom and Photoshop and Bridge though there may be other Adobe apps that I don't use that do.

What proprietary file format were thee RAW files? The image files need to be Proprietary RAW format otherwise Lightroom import will ignore any Sidecar file that could contain data in an AMP section within the source file.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, since many many applications create .XMP sidecars (although not sure about the case sensitivity issue, if that's what you mean). Some were created by Graphic Converter, some by Photo Mechanic. All work fine if imported in other ways, and have for years. With same case. The files are .orfs, Olympus. Again, they import fine other ways.

I don't have the Passport booted up, but I suspect Johan's answer is the solution, since it's whether the drive is case sensitive that probably matters, and I'm guessing maybe the Passport is NTFS by default, and that's case sensitive IIRC. I didn't reformat it after buying it and most often use DNGs so perhaps I hadn't noticed until now. Thanks! might just reformat when I empty it to exFat instead.

 

[Linwood Ferguson]

There are also differences in how LR treats camera cards and how it treats disk drive imports. I am not saying it treats XMP differently, just that the whole process is different, so the issue may (or may not) be sensitive to exactly how the NAS drive was mounted (mount point, share name, etc.). I've never seen documented how LR decides whether it is using a drive or folder.

 

[rob211]

After getting back to the Passport, I discovered that yes, it's the case of the sidecar extension names that caused the problem. Photo Mechanic had been set to uppercase, which of course didn't matter on my macOS drives. But apparently it does on the NTFS wifi volume. I changed the prefs to write .xmp instead of .XMP and Lr is now happily importing the metadata. Thanks to all for your help!

 

[Paul_DS256]

Lr is now happily importing the metadata.

I've found this thread interesting to watch. I don't use any other tool that produces XMP files. I was wondering if Adobe has an official position of supporting non-LR XMP files? I can see a one time 'import' of the contents of an XMP but not an on-going sync with the LR DB.

In other words, it may work, but is it supported, making it liable to break anytime in the future?

 

[rob211]

XMP is an open standard developed by Adobe, File management, metadata integration | Adobe Extensible Metadata Platform (XMP). So many applications use it. And yes, Adobe applications can read it. Remember that it's just a language, and if say there's an image adjustment that is proprietary to another application Lr or ACR won't necessarily be able to do anything with that. Just like how Lr can read exif. Not sure what you mean by "can see..."; but there ARE tools for ongoing synchronization of metadata written to sidecars or into files in Lr. One is called "Synchronize..." in fact.

And no, it will not break in the future. Unless Adobe goes bankrupt, but then the many many many other applications will carry on using XMP and maybe even continuing to develop the standard. Like DNG, JPEG, TIFF, PDF, etc.

 

[Paul_DS256]

XMP is an open standard developed by Adobe

Thanks Rob211. I perceived XMP as a concept that was XML based. It was interesting reading in your link "Since early 2012, XMP is also an ISO standard (16684-1). "

 

[clee01l]

XMP is an open standard developed by Adobe, File management, metadata integration | Adobe Extensible Metadata Platform (XMP). So many applications use it. And yes, Adobe applications can read it. Remember that it's just a language, and if say there's an image adjustment that is proprietary to another application Lr or ACR won't necessarily be able to do anything with that. Just like how Lr can read exif. Not sure what you mean by "can see..."; but there ARE tools for ongoing synchronization of metadata written to sidecars or into files in Lr. One is called "Synchronize..." in fact.

And no, it will not break in the future. Unless Adobe goes bankrupt, but then the many many many other applications will carry on using XMP and maybe even continuing to develop the standard. Like DNG, JPEG, TIFF, PDF, etc.

XMP is an Adobe file specification bases on the XML structured language. The Definition of the XMP is based upon defined Key/value pairs that will be interpreted by the app reading the XMP section/file. Any included Key/value pair that is not defined for the app that is reading the file will be ignored. Here are two Key/Value pairs from XMP files generated by Lightroom. The first is from Process version 5. The second from Process version 1:
crs:Exposure2012="-0.06"
crs:Exposure="+0.75"
A Lightroom version prior to Process version 5 will ignore the first exposure setting. Any Lightroom version will read the second Key/Value Pair and (probably) switch to Process version 1. If another app created an XMP file and included an Exposure Key/Value Pair that is not like one of the examples or one for the other Process versions, Lightroom will ignore it.

 

[PhilBurton]

How did you create the sidecars files? The only apps that create sidecar XMP files are from Adobe, specifically Lightroom and Photoshop and Bridge though there may be other Adobe apps that I don't use that do.

Non-Adobe apps can read and create/edit XMP files. Photo Supreme is a good example. An XMP file created by Lightroom, imported and then exported by Photo Supreme will preserve all the Lightroom entries, although the various entries will be arranged in a different order. And Lightroom can successfully import such an XMP file.