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Can't See Edits in Develop Modual

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gerryt

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When i import a catalog then go into the Develop modual all the sliders are at the positions before i made changes to my photos. Why are the not showing the adjustments i made before.
 
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Can you run us through the steps you're taking Gerry?
 
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gerryt

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Yes Victoria, Fisrt of all i should say that i have a 2nd 36'GB hard drive that i use only for photos. I import pics from my CF card via card reader then do my adjustments in develop modual, then i export as JPEGs to that HD and put them into a subfolder.

It's then at a later date that i wish to view the Raws before i exported their not showing the adjustments i did.
 

Brad Snyder

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Gerry, you say two things that don't fit together.

1st post - "When i import a catalog then go into the Develop modual all the sliders are at the positions before i made changes to my photos."

2nd post - "It's then at a later date that i wish to view the Raws before i exported their not showing the adjustments i did."


In post 2, you say that the RAW files have been imported, processed, exported as JPG, and everything's fine. Yet, you mention "importing" again in post 1 in order to see the RAW images.

It shouldn't be necessary to re-"import" the raw files to see them, they should still be there in the catalog. If they're not there in the catalog; if for instance, you have deleted them, then that's the problem.

Can you tell us just a little more detail about your processing work flow?
 
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Sounds to me like Brad's hit the nail on the head - I guess you're removing the files from Lightroom's catalog and then reimporting the raw files again later? During which time Lightroom's forgotten all about their settings, because you deleted them.

Solutions....

1. Don't delete them from Lightroom's catalog
2. Select all and hit Ctrl-S/Cmd-S once you've finished making adjustments, which will save most of the settings back to XMP (as per Bridge/ACR), which will then be visible when you view them in Bridge or back in Lightroom after importing again.
 
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gerryt

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Sorry guy's but i'm still very new to LR and there may i fear i could be doing some of the workflow a little wrong, you see before i started shooting in Raw and useing LR, i stored all my pics (JPEGs) in folders in windows picture and fax viewer and editing them with PS.

Brad, i don't think i'm deleteing my raws, after i export the converted raws as jpegs i see that the raws are in another folder, but its when i open them in LR that they have lost all the adjustments i made before.

Victoria, could you explain what XMP and bridge is i've never heard of them, so if i do a Ctrl/s the edited raws will be saved in LR and then i should export as jpegs:?
 

Brad Snyder

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gerryt;16'6' said:
Brad, i don't think i'm deleteing my raws, after i export the converted raws as jpegs i see that the raws are in another folder, but its when i open them in LR that they have lost all the adjustments i made before.

Victoria, could you explain what XMP and bridge is i've never heard of them, so if i do a Ctrl/s the edited raws will be saved in LR and then i should export as jpegs:?
Gerry, here's where we're getting confused. Let's say you import one Raw file into LR, and let's say you chose to Import at Original Location. At this point, LR enters the image particulars in its database and starts rendering the image for display according to default camera profile and any develop presets you may have chosen to apply. When you make adjustments to your image, the image file is completely untouched, the adjustments, are saved, more or less, as a 'recipe' in the database. (Optionally the 'recipe' can be stored in an external XMP format as Victoria suggested, as well). Note that the LR adjustments are ALWAYS saved, you don't have to do anything to make it happen. The ctrl-s is a way to force an optional external save as well, see below.

When you export to an RGB format (JPG,TIF, PSD) the "recipe" gets baked (converted) into actual pixels in the output file.

So, for your image, there is an original RAW file, in its original location; there's the adjustments you made stored in the database; there's a preview file (to help speed display, etc) stored in the database; and now there's a new JPG file exported to some other location, which the database doesn't know anything about.

To make the adjustments go away, you have to take deliberate steps to reset the changes. That's one of the more powerful aspects of LR, the non-destructive, yet persistent adjustments, that LR makes without affecting the original file, at all.

It's really quite difficult for us to conceive how those adjustments could disappear, hence the confusion in answering your question.

Bridge is another product from Adobe, which acts as a browser for several of their products, including Photoshop. Some people use it for their file management as opposed to LR.

XMP is data interchange standard for adjustments and metadata applied to image files. It is a LR option to allow storage of the respective image XMP data externally from the LR catalog/database. This is what the ctrl-s is for.

This, may be way too much detail, but we need to figure out where your workflow is differing from this scenario in order to determine what could be causing the effects you're seeing.

Can you describe in detail what you've been doing, for just one image, as I did above?
 

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Brad Snyder;16'68 said:
[..]

This, may be way too much detail,

[..]
That was one of the clearest explanations I have seen in quite a while...

Anthony.
 
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gerryt

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Brad Snyder;16'68 said:
So, for your image, there is an original RAW file, in its original location; there's the adjustments you made stored in the database; there's a preview file (to help speed display, etc) stored in the database; and now there's a new JPG file exported to some other location, which the database doesn't know anything about.
So am i right in saying that LR creates 4 files in different locations, it could be i've imported the original raw file and that's why i can't see the adjustments, but i can't seem to find the Raws with the adjustments i made, i have looked through all my folders and their not there.

Anyway onto one file, so its imported into LR via my CF card, i go to the Develop modual and do any necessary editing (Exposure, WB etc) then i will export it as a JPEG 1''% 3''ppi to a folder named (LR Edited-Motorsport) and lets just say the file would be named Jim Clark Rally 1 Next i would open Photoshop and bring in the file, this is when i will sharpen it (unsharp mask) and hit save.

All that i know is there is now a Raw file in my other folder named (LR Unedited) but i don't know if this is the original or the one with the adjustments done in Develop modual. The LR Catalog structure is a bit confusing if you know what i mean, eg: where LR stores the various files.

I've seen in another post on here someone suggesting the book, The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Book for Digital Photographers, i am going to buy it next week in the hope that it will help me some.
 

Brad Snyder

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So am i right in saying that LR creates 4 files in different locations, it could be i've imported the original raw file and that's why i can't see the adjustments, but i can't seem to find the Raws with the adjustments i made, i have looked through all my folders and their not there.

Not really. As part of it's default .image processing, LR doesn't create additional files anwywhere. It simply creates a reference entry in its database pointing to the original raw file. Then it keeps track of adjustments you make, basically as a series of text instructions, which literally say "Set exposure to +.25, set WB to 56''K, set Fill to +2'...." So, there is the original raw file, and a hugemongous database. Period. (Now, off on the side, and completely secondary to the process is a series of image cache files, which "remember" what your last adjustment looked like. This is simply to speed display scrolling, etc., these files are created automatically, and can be deleted at will with no harm to the process.) If at this point, you go off and look for some edited RAW file, which I think is what you're asking about, you're not going to find it; it doesn't exist. I assume you're used to pixel based editors, where you open an image, bash the pixels around, and 'Save' the result somewhere. LR doesn't work like that.

You looked throught the folders with what tool? The RAW files are completely and totally untouched by the LR process. You can adjust your image a thousand times and export it a thousand and one times, and the RAW file will be exactly the same as when you copied from the card. The changes you make are saved in the LR database only. (As I said, there's an option to also save elsewhere, but let's ignore that for simplicity.) If you're looking at the RAW files with some other tool besides LR (or Photoshop with ACR) you will not see any changes, period.


Anyway onto one file, so its imported into LR via my CF card, i go to the Develop modual and do any necessary editing (Exposure, WB etc) then i will export it as a JPEG 1''% 3''ppi to a folder named (LR Edited-Motorsport) and lets just say the file would be named Jim Clark Rally 1 Next i would open Photoshop and bring in the file, this is when i will sharpen it (unsharp mask) and hit save.

[COLOR=#''''ff]There is an option to export an uncompressed TIF or PSD file directly to PSCS3 with a 16-bit color space. This may provide a much higher-fidelity lossless route to PS. Right-click on the image, and select "Edit in PS..."[/COLOR]

All that i know is there is now a Raw file in my other folder named (LR Unedited) but i don't know if this is the original or the one with the adjustments done in Develop modual. The LR Catalog structure is a bit confusing if you know what i mean, eg: where LR stores the various files.

[COLOR=#''''ff]What is named "LR Unedited" The file? The folder? Did you name it as part of your storage scheme? Let me repeat, there is only one RAW file, and it's not changed. That's the whole point of "non-destructive" editing. Mangle your image to your heart's content, the original is always safe and camera-fresh :cheesy: .[/COLOR]

I've seen in another post on here someone suggesting the book, The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Book for Digital Photographers, i am going to buy it next week in the hope that it will help me some.
[COLOR=#''''ff]Yes, that's an excellent book and will probably help a lot. I'm struggling with time vs. tone here; if anything in this comes across as offensive or snide, my humble apologies, I'm trying to elaborate fully, and I'm running out of time. Please keep asking, if you need additional clarification

[/COLOR]
 
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gerryt

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[COLOR=#''''ff]I'm struggling with time vs. tone here; if anything in this comes across as offensive or snide, my humble apologies, I'm trying to elaborate fully, and I'm running out of time. Please keep asking, if you need additional clarification[/COLOR]
Not offensive at all brad, probably more to do with me finding it hard to get my head round LR. Windows Picture and fax viewer is what i use to look up, find and view all my photo files. This is where the folders LR Unedited and LR Edited are.

Would you say in your experience i would be better off just to import my photos into LR do any adjustments and leave them their (don't export as jpegs) and only the ones i want to print, export as jpegs, PS sharpen them and bring them back into LR to print.
 

Brad Snyder

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Not offensive at all brad, probably more to do with me finding it hard to get my head round LR. Windows Picture and fax viewer is what i use to look up, find and view all my photo files. This is where the folders LR Unedited and LR Edited are.

If you're viewing the RAW files with the Windows Picture and Fax viewer, that's the problem. Since your LR adjustments are not saved with the RAW file, there's nothing for the Windows Viewer to interpret. Even if you did use the optional save XMP data, the Windows Viewer doesn't know how to interpret it.

Would you say in your experience i would be better off just to import my photos into LR do any adjustments and leave them their (don't export as jpegs) and only the ones i want to print, export as jpegs, PS sharpen them and bring them back into LR to print.
[COLOR=#''''ff]Yes, exactly. You may want to look into sending TIFFs or PSDs to Photoshop, as they will be of better quality. You may also want to experiment with the LR 2 Beta, as it's print/export sharpening tools were created by/with Pixel Genius, the PhotoKit Sharpener people. We can fix you up with the extended Beta trial offer if you like.[/COLOR]
 
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[COLOR=#''''ff]Yes, exactly. You may want to look into sending TIFFs or PSDs to Photoshop, as they will be of better quality. You may also want to experiment with the LR 2 Beta, as it's print/export sharpening tools were created by/with Pixel Genius, the PhotoKit Sharpener people. We can fix you up with the extended Beta trial offer if you like.[/COLOR]
How patient you were Brad! Nicely done! 8)

Gerry, May I suggest you one more reading from our "Tips and Tricks" section? This is "Where is the Save button" from Mick Seymour. And why not also the "Where are my pictures?" By Brad Snyder?...
 
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