Can I Remove Photos but Keep Development Settings?

[reidthaler]

Lightroom Version Number

Current

Operating System

1. Windows 10

I work with a lot of clients whose catalogs can be kind of messed up. Sometimes it's easier just to remove images and reimport them. But is it possible to keep development settings? Even if I check save changes to XMP, if I remove the photo and reimport it it also removes us the XMP file.

Obviously, one workaround would be to move the XMP files to another folder before I remove the images, remove the images, paste the XMP files back in, and synchronize the folder. But is there another way?

Another option I just thought of, would be to create a new catalog and simply move the photos to another location on import.

Thanks,

Reid

 

[Califdan]

Hi reidthaler,

Not sure how removing the image but keeping the develop settings would help your clients unless their underlying original photo was screwed up by something outside of LR. But, here's how to do it anyway.

1) Outside of LR (say in windows file manager or Mac Finder) delete the underlying image file. I'd also delete the XMP if one exists but you could also leave it. DO NOT REMOVE FROM LR

2) Replace that image file with a new (and hopefully correct one) using File Manager or Finder). DO NOT IMPORT INTO LR

3) The new image should be in the same folder and have the same file name as the one you deleted

4) In LR select the image and go to the develop module (this should refresh the preview)

After these steps, all the metadata and develop changes, including the image history panel entries, will be as they were, just now being applied to the new copy of the image. So, it is important that the new copy start in the same state as the old one. In other words, if you imported the original and, let's say, increased the exposure by 2 stops. Then performed this process but used an image that already had a 2 stop exposure increase; now In LR you'd have a 4 stop increase as the 2 stops in history panel would be added to the brighter original image.

Dan

 

[johnbeardy]

Even if I check save changes to XMP, if I remove the photo and reimport it it also removes us the XMP file.

No it doesn't. If you delete a photo, you delete the xmp file. If you merely remove it, the xmp file remains on disc.

 

[PhilBurton]

Hi reidthaler,

Not sure how removing the image but keeping the develop settings would help your clients unless their underlying original photo was screwed up by something outside of LR. But, here's how to do it anyway.

1) Outside of LR (say in windows file manager or Mac Finder) delete the underlying image file. I'd also delete the XMP if one exists but you could also leave it. DO NOT REMOVE FROM LR

2) Replace that image file with a new (and hopefully correct one) using File Manager or Finder). DO NOT IMPORT INTO LR

3) The new image should be in the same folder and have the same file name as the one you deleted

4) In LR select the image and go to the develop module (this should refresh the preview)

After these steps, all the metadata and develop changes, including the image history panel entries, will be as they were, just now being applied to the new copy of the image. So, it is important that the new copy start in the same state as the old one. In other words, if you imported the original and, let's say, increased the exposure by 2 stops. Then performed this process but used an image that already had a 2 stop exposure increase; now In LR you'd have a 4 stop increase as the 2 stops in history panel would be added to the brighter original image.

Dan

I think I'm not following here. @reidthaler: Are you saying that the images are good, but the catalog is screwed up? @Califdan: If that is the case, how does deleting the images files on disk and then replace them address @reidthaler's problem.

Phil Burton

 

[Califdan]

I'm interpreting it the other way around, that the catalog was good (@reidthaler is asking to retain the develop settings in LR) but the underlying image on disk is incorrect. How such a situation would occur is not clear. Perhaps the original file had been replaced by an edited version of the same file from some other editor or someone uploaded images from a memory card where different images duplicated the same file name in the same folder and they selected 'replace'. The requester did not articulate the circumstance prompting the request but did say

But is it possible to keep development settings

So, I inferred from other text in the request that @reidthaler wanted to swap in a different version of the image but still have all the changes made in LR apply to that new base file. Of course it could be that @reidthaler meant something else. It would be good to know more details

 

[reidthaler]

It’s not the issue that the images are screwed up, it’s just that the catalog is so disorganized that it makes sense to remove images and re-import them but I may want to keep the development settings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Califdan]

Then ignore my previous answer. If your problem is that you don't care for the folder organizational structure and which images live in which folders, there are a couple of solutions.

1) just ignore the folders altogether and use collections to get the organization you want. I know many people who do this. It's not my recommendation but many of my clients are happy with it.

2) use drag and drop inside the Folders Panel in LR to clean up your organization. This would be the same thing you'd do File Manager or Finder to achieve the organization you desire. This is the approach I'd reccomend.

But, if you remove the images from LR you are losing a fair amount of information - even if you keep the XMP files. If you just "Remove" the images and folders from Lightroom but leave them on Disk, your XMP files will remain. Then later when you re-import those files, what's in the XMP files will be placed back in the catalog. But you will lose some things along the way. For example, you will lose Collection participation of the images. You may lose pick flags (not sure about this). You will lose Publish Service participation. You will lose Virtual Copies. You will lose the history of changes. You will lose snapshots, not to mention slideshows and saved prints. Most of the rest of the metadata should come through OK as will most of the develop module slider positions. This is not something I've done much of so what you lose and what is kept may be slightly different than I have stated. The best is to try it on one or two images for yourself and see if you lose anything that is important to you.

If you take this approach, make sure you save the metadata and edits to the image files (or XMP files) before removing the images from LR.

Dan

 

[PhilBurton]

It’s not the issue that the images are screwed up, it’s just that the catalog is so disorganized that it makes sense to remove images and re-import them but I may want to keep the development settings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you do one or more catalog exports?

 

[reidthaler]

No it doesn't. If you delete a photo, you delete the xmp file. If you merely remove it, the xmp file remains on disc.

But when I synchronize or import the photo, it doesn't retain my last development settings, even though I see that the XMP was changed right before I removed it.

 

[reidthaler]

Then ignore my previous answer. If your problem is that you don't care for the folder organizational structure and which images live in which folders, there are a couple of solutions.

1) just ignore the folders altogether and use collections to get the organization you want. I know many people who do this. It's not my recommendation but many of my clients are happy with it.

2) use drag and drop inside the Folders Panel in LR to clean up your organization. This would be the same thing you'd do File Manager or Finder to achieve the organization you desire. This is the approach I'd reccomend.

But, if you remove the images from LR you are losing a fair amount of information - even if you keep the XMP files. If you just "Remove" the images and folders from Lightroom but leave them on Disk, your XMP files will remain. Then later when you re-import those files, what's in the XMP files will be placed back in the catalog. But you will lose some things along the way. For example, you will lose Collection participation of the images. You may lose pick flags (not sure about this). You will lose Publish Service participation. You will lose Virtual Copies. You will lose the history of changes. You will lose snapshots, not to mention slideshows and saved prints. Most of the rest of the metadata should come through OK as will most of the develop module slider positions. This is not something I've done much of so what you lose and what is kept may be slightly different than I have stated. The best is to try it on one or two images for yourself and see if you lose anything that is important to you.

If you take this approach, make sure you save the metadata and edits to the image files (or XMP files) before removing the images from LR.

Dan

Dan,

Thanks for taking the time to respond thoroughly. Regarding your suggestions, 1) would make sense to those of us that have worked in Lightroom for a while and understand the importance of working in collections. But for a lot of my clients, they are new to the idea collections and for them, the idea of being organized is seeing things chronologically. So while that would work, I don't think my clients would be satisfied with that suggestion.

Regarding 2) Would be so laborious as a lot of my client files have no pattern or organization, simply descriptive folders within other folders. That's why like to import images with an import preset.

As I mentioned in another post, if I remove the photo, believe the XMP file, then reimport the image, it's not retaining the last development settings. And yes while I am aware that I would lose virtual copies, collections, Published services, and color coding, most of my clients haven't utilized those Lightroom attributes so they wouldn't really be missing them. So that puts me back in the beginning, since I can't seem to find a way of retaining development settings but also re-importing with an import preset by year and month. Importing from another catalog also doesn't give me the option to rearrange the order of the photos on import.

And judging by your moniker, it sounds like your perhaps in my end of the hood. I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, in Marin County.

Reid

 

[reidthaler]

Can you do one or more catalog exports?

Exporting as a catalog I don't think will address any of the organizational issues, since it retains the existing organizational structure

 

[Johan Elzenga]

I work with a lot of clients whose catalogs can be kind of messed up. Sometimes it's easier just to remove images and reimport them. But is it possible to keep development settings? Even if I check save changes to XMP, if I remove the photo and reimport it it also removes us the XMP file.

Are you sure? That should not happen. If you delete the photo from disk, then that will obviously also delete the XMP file. But if you remove the photo from the catalog, then the XMP file should not be deleted. I just tested it to make sure, and it's not deleted on my system.

 

[johnbeardy]

But when I synchronize or import the photo, it doesn't retain my last development settings, even though I see that the XMP was changed right before I removed it.

And the xmp file would be there after you removed it too. Develop preset set in the Import dialog? Even if Synchronize Folder doesn't display the Import dialog, it uses its settings.

 

[reidthaler]

And the xmp file would be there after you removed it too. Develop preset set in the Import dialog? Even if Synchronize Folder doesn't display the Import dialog, it uses its settings.

The XMP file is there after I remove the file. I have auto tone applied on import.

What you are saying is that last settings won’t be retained if Syncronize Folders used the preset designated on import regardless.

 

[reidthaler]

Are you sure? That should not happen. If you delete the photo from disk, then that will obviously also delete the XMP file. But if you remove the photo from the catalog, then the XMP file should not be deleted. I just tested it to make sure, and it's not deleted on my system.

Yes. I am sure. I tried it twice.

 

[johnbeardy]

What you are saying is that last settings won’t be retained if Syncronize Folders used the preset designated on import regardless.

When you use Synchronize, there is an option to display the Import dialog box. If you display it, you can set or clear options such as a Develop preset to apply to the imported items. If you don't display it, Synchronize would apply the preset, if any, that was previously set.

 

[Califdan]

JohanElzenga said:
Are you sure? That should not happen. If you delete the photo from disk, then that will obviously also delete the XMP file. But if you remove the photo from the catalog, then the XMP file should not be deleted. I just tested it to make sure, and it's not deleted on my system.
Yes. I am sure. I tried it twice.

Reidthaler, I must side with John that if you "remove" an image that has an XMP, that both the image the XMP remain on disk. However, only some file types require XMP files. For example, DNG's keep the xmp info inside the DNG file and don't require a separate XMP file. Same thing with JPG's and several other file types. The most common file types that get seperate XM{P files are camera specific RAW files. I just did this experiment with a DNG file (removed the image from LR) and indeed both the DNG and the XMP remained on disk and I was able to re-import the image. So, maybe try it a 3rd time but before you remove the image in LR assure that it actually has an XMP, then remove it from LR and check again.

On your original problem though, is it correct that the goal is to utilize the automatic folder generation capability of the Import Dialog to have LR create a folder structure for the images based on capture date? And, the reason is that the current folder structure is haphazard (and useless). and it's too laborious to sort ALL images in capture time order and inside of the Folder panel just select images in clumps (say an entire month which would all in order) and drag them to a new folder for that month? If this is a correct analysis of your problem then your approach seems valid (assuming the XMP data behaves as I and John say it does).

But in the process you will lose:
- Collection participation of the images
- Pick flags
- Publish Service participation
- Virtual Copies
- Develop module history of changes
- Snapshots
- Slideshows
- Saved prints
- Sometimes Keywords may be re-added at the root of the KW list rather than finding the existing KW in a hierarchy
- Where keywords are duplicated in your catalog (e.g. you have the Keyword "Red" under both "Cars" and under "Trucks") it may pick the wrong one, pick both or create a new one at the root (I have not done enough experimentation to determine the exact pattern but have seen anomilies in this area)

You will retain
- Develop module changes (but not history, only final state of slider positions)
- targeted adjustments (radial filters, gradiant filters, brush strokes)
- most other metadata (titles, captions, star ratings, copyright, GPS, Location info, etc

Dan

 

[reidthaler]

John,

You da' man! When I synched, displayed the import dialog, and set preset preset to none, it retained the settings!

Thanks for solving this mystery. I thought I knew the program pretty well. Good to learn something new. It's a bit counter intuitive as you think synchronize would automatically apply the XMP settings since it's available.

 

[reidthaler]

Reidthaler, I must side with John that if you "remove" an image that has an XMP, that both the image the XMP remain on disk. However, only some file types require XMP files. For example, DNG's keep the xmp info inside the DNG file and don't require a separate XMP file. Same thing with JPG's and several other file types. The most common file types that get seperate XM{P files are camera specific RAW files. I just did this experiment with a DNG file (removed the image from LR) and indeed both the DNG and the XMP remained on disk and I was able to re-import the image. So, maybe try it a 3rd time but before you remove the image in LR assure that it actually has an XMP, then remove it from LR and check again.

On your original problem though, is it correct that the goal is to utilize the automatic folder generation capability of the Import Dialog to have LR create a folder structure for the images based on capture date? And, the reason is that the current folder structure is haphazard (and useless). and it's too laborious to sort ALL images in capture time order and inside of the Folder panel just select images in clumps (say an entire month which would all in order) and drag them to a new folder for that month? If this is a correct analysis of your problem then your approach seems valid (assuming the XMP data behaves as I and John say it does).

But in the process you will lose:
- Collection participation of the images
- Pick flags
- Publish Service participation
- Virtual Copies
- Develop module history of changes
- Snapshots
- Slideshows
- Saved prints
- Sometimes Keywords may be re-added at the root of the KW list rather than finding the existing KW in a hierarchy
- Where keywords are duplicated in your catalog (e.g. you have the Keyword "Red" under both "Cars" and under "Trucks") it may pick the wrong one, pick both or create a new one at the root (I have not done enough experimentation to determine the exact pattern but have seen anomilies in this area)

You will retain
- Develop module changes (but not history, only final state of slider positions)
- targeted adjustments (radial filters, gradiant filters, brush strokes)
- most other metadata (titles, captions, star ratings, copyright, GPS, Location info, etc

Dan

Dan,

Thanks again for the good info.

As I said, most of my clients haven't utilized a lot of the tools in Lightroom, so they won't be missing much.