Camera profiles as default on import

[TerryM]

I recently updated to LR 2.2 and am starting to use camera profiles. But it is very confusing and not a lot of info on how it works that I have been able to find. I have three Canon cameras. 5D, Rebel xt, and powershotG9. If I set up three defaults that are camera and serial number specific, say, using camera standard. Am I to understand if 5d and rebel pics are in the import folder, and the 5d default preset is selected, it will only be applied to the 5d images? Then what about the images that were from the rebel? It doesn't seem that I should have to separate the images by camera prior to import. I would appreciate any info to clarify this.

 

[ThomasB]

I suggest to assign the camera profiles not via a preset. The better way is to change the standard develop setting. Go to the develop section, set all controls to the standard you want to have, including the camera profile (e.g. "Camera Standard"). Then press and hold ALT. Then you see a "set as standard" button in the bottom of the right panel. Click on it and you're done.

LR uses camera-type specific camara profiles. Even if it displays only "Camera Standard" or "Camera Faithful", it uses internally "Camera Standard Canon 5D" or "Camera Faithful Rebel XT", depending on the camera type used for the actual picture.

 

[Gene McCullagh]

Thomas is exactly right!

However, setting up the camera profiles as presets is useful if you want to see what the other presets would look like by hovering and watching the preview window or if you want to override your default on import.

 

[TerryM]

I suggest to assign the camera profiles not via a preset. The better way is to change the standard develop setting. Go to the develop section, set all controls to the standard you want to have, including the camera profile (e.g. "Camera Standard"). Then press and hold ALT. Then you see a "set as standard" button in the bottom of the right panel. Click on it and you're done.

LR uses camera-type specific camara profiles. Even if it displays only "Camera Standard" or "Camera Faithful", it uses internally "Camera Standard Canon 5D" or "Camera Faithful Rebel XT", depending on the camera type used for the actual picture.

I am having trouble understanding. What is the difference in a profile and a standard develop setting? Are you saying select any canon camera image, create profile using Camera standard, but not camera or sn specific and use this for import. That it will apply the correct camera standard on the fly? So if there were images from two different camera, the right data would be applied? If this it true, I wonder why the ability to be camera specific is there?

 

[tzalman]

One reason could be to differentiate between two units of the same model if they have been individually calibrated.
Elie

 

[MMarz]

Interesting thread..

So if you are shooting RAW, with two different bodies, and want the same develop settings applied at import, what's the easiest way to "sync" them?

 

[TerryM]

Thomas is exactly right!

However, setting up the camera profiles as presets is useful if you want to see what the other presets would look like by hovering and watching the preview window or if you want to override your default on import.

It seems to me a preset is a profile and if it is under the default folder it becomes a default preset. I don't understand how to distinguish the difference. Could you explain the above paragraph in simple terms that my mind can understand.

 

[TerryM]

I suggest to assign the camera profiles not via a preset. The better way is to change the standard develop setting. Go to the develop section, set all controls to the standard you want to have, including the camera profile (e.g. "Camera Standard"). Then press and hold ALT. Then you see a "set as standard" button in the bottom of the right panel. Click on it and you're done.

LR uses camera-type specific camara profiles. Even if it displays only "Camera Standard" or "Camera Faithful", it uses internally "Camera Standard Canon 5D" or "Camera Faithful Rebel XT", depending on the camera type used for the actual picture.

OK, Thomas. I think I understand what you said. I can set one default to the camera standard and it will apply the correct camera calibration to the photo based on the camera used to take that photo. I also tried this. I made three default presets, one for each camera. I then made a radical change to the exposure of camera "a" and updated the preset in order to determine if LR was switching between camera calibration profiles and it is. So It appears that if you have some unique settings for a particular camera that works fine. After importing files from all three cameras, camera "a" was over exposed as I had set it. So I believe you can control multiple cameras on the fly this way.

 

[Gene McCullagh]

Hi Terry!

Presets live in the Presets panel and can contain settings for nearly every Develop setting in LR. The camera profiles live in the Camera Calibration panel and only deal with the settings in that panel.

While presets can be applied to ANY image, camera profiles are locked to particular cameras. By default LR uses one standard calibration. But using the ALT/OPTION key as Thomas describes above allows you to set default calibrations by camera model. This way, if you were to import images from three different models each model would get its previously set default.

 

[TerryM]

Hi Terry!

Presets live in the Presets panel and can contain settings for nearly every Develop setting in LR. The camera profiles live in the Camera Calibration panel and only deal with the settings in that panel.

While presets can be applied to ANY image, camera profiles are locked to particular cameras. By default LR uses one standard calibration. But using the ALT/OPTION key as Thomas describes above allows you to set default calibrations by camera model. This way, if you were to import images from three different models each model would get its previously set default.

Gene, I appreciate the help. This has been a very confusing topic. I think I am finally understanding it. I actually created 3 defaults, one for each camera and it seems to be working fine when the import files are mixed from multiple cameras. I think one thing that confused me is in the import panel you have to pick a preset or default calibration, such as 5d, but that does not mean it will apply 5d calibration to the rebel. It automatically switches. I just cannot believe Adobe writes this great software and not any info on how it works. Thanks for the help.

 

[Mark Sirota]

The confusing part that hasn't yet been explained, I think, is that the "camera standard" profile is camera-dependent. That is, even though all three of your cameras generate Canon raw files, the profile applied by "camera standard" is actually different for each camera.

Lightroom and Camera Raw figure this out automagically -- you can apply Camera Standard as a default or with a preset, and LR and ACR will automatically apply the correct "camera standard" profile for that camera.

Did that help?

 

[TerryM]

The confusing part that hasn't yet been explained, I think, is that the "camera standard" profile is camera-dependent. That is, even though all three of your cameras generate Canon raw files, the profile applied by "camera standard" is actually different for each camera.

Lightroom and Camera Raw figure this out automagically -- you can apply Camera Standard as a default or with a preset, and LR and ACR will automatically apply the correct "camera standard" profile for that camera.

Did that help?

Yes, Mark. It does help. Thank you. One thing that is still confusing to me. You refer to applying Camera standard as a default or with a preset. I am having a problem understanding what is a default. When I go to the export panel, I have to select a develop preset to process the images with. I actually created three default presets, one for each camera. that way it seems if I wish to make other develop changes for a specific camera in addition to the camera calibration I can do that. I tried and tested this and it works. The three defaults I set up are all under the folder, "default" so maybe this is what everyone is referring to as the default. Does that make sense? sorry for the confusion.

 

[Brad Snyder]

I think we're getting tied up in vocabulary here.

Profile - a specific algorithm of color rendering when importing camera raw files. These are specific to given camera models. They are selected in the Camera Calibration Panel in the Develop module. Each is specific to a camera model, but all cameras from a given manufacturer have analogous profiles, (eg. Canon, Nikon). Additionally, a Profile can be set by a Develop Preset(see below), or can be established as a Default (see below).

Preset - a collection of Develop Module settings, which are applied together, either manually, or via the import dialog. These can be applied to any image, regardless of source. And can range from a single setting value, to all available settings applied simultaneously (eg. exposure +1, or exposure +1, sat -1', crop, rotate, align, dust clone/heal, ad inf.) These are created pressing the (+) icon on the Develop Preset Browser. Among the variables that can be set, is the camera calibration profile.

Default - a collection of Develop mode settings that can be assigned for application to all images, always, at import time. These can be segregated by camera serial number if desired. One of the variables that can be set as a default is the camera calibration profile.

 

[TerryM]

thanks Brad.

 

[Mark Sirota]

Preset - a collection of Develop Module settings, which are applied together, either manually, or via the import dialog.

Specifically, these are "Develop Presets". There are also Metadata Presets, Adjustment Brush Presets, Export Presets, etc. Develop Presets can include Profiles, which is why they've come up in this discussion.

 

[Macro]

I think we're getting tied up in vocabulary here.

Preset - a collection of Develop Module settings, which are applied together, either manually, or via the import dialog. These can be applied to any image, regardless of source. And can range from a single setting value, to all available settings applied simultaneously (eg. exposure +1, or exposure +1, sat -1', crop, rotate, align, dust clone/heal, ad inf.) These are created pressing the (+) icon on the Develop Preset Browser. Among the variables that can be set, is the camera calibration profile.

Since the Camera Calibration Profiles are camera model specific, then don't we need to create a separate User Preset for each camera? For example: Camera Standard 5D, Camera Standard 5'D, Camera Standard XSi, etc.???

David

 

[Brad Snyder]

No, they're identically named internally, to allow for that possiblility. No harm in doing it that way, but not required.

 

[Brad Snyder]

Thanks for the addition, Mark. Nothing like trying to clarify something, and opening up another door of confusion.

 

[TerryM]

So how many default setting can you have? And where do you select them on the import panel?

 

[Brad Snyder]

Only one per camera model, or optionally one per serial number, or one per ISO setting, or multiple combinations of serial number/ISO.

Here's the Adobe help page.

If you choose 'None' as the Develop Preset in the Import dialog, the pertinent (by model/serial number/ISO combination) default settings will be applied.

 

[TerryM]

So, Brad, when I set a default for my 5d, camera standard, are you indicating I cannot combine any other setting of the develop module with this setting? Sorry that this is so confusing for me. I really do appreciate your help.

 

[Brad Snyder]

No, you can set the default to be any combination of Develop module settings you want.

Get a 5d image up, in Develop module.

Do with it what you will, including all develop sliders, crops, whatever, plus select a Camera Calibration profile, say 'camera standard', if you like.

Hold down Alt, notice 'Reset' changes to 'Set Default...' . Click the 'Set Default ...' button.
You will be given the Option to:

a) Restore Adobe Defaults
b) Change the 5D default settings to the settings currently (at this moment) applied in the Dev Module
c) Cancel.

There's a "No Undo..." warning, which simply means that Ctrl-z/Undo won't work in this case.

Now, if you import 5D images, with the 'None' develop preset, selected in the Import dialog, all of the settings which you just chose, will be applied to all imported images.


(In the more complicated optional case, option b) above would indicate that the 5D was a specific s/n, or ISO setting, or combinations of both)

 

[TerryM]

OK, Brad. Thanks a million. I got it finally. I think where I got confused is there is a default folder in the presets and I wanted to set the default and also update a preset under default. Bad idea. Anyway, thanks a lot. Your last statement sums it up and makes it very clear.

 

[Brad Snyder]

 

[MMarz]

I think we're getting tied up in vocabulary here.

Profile - a specific algorithm of color rendering when importing camera raw files. These are specific to given camera models. They are selected in the Camera Calibration Panel in the Develop module. Each is specific to a camera model, but all cameras from a given manufacturer have analogous profiles, (eg. Canon, Nikon). Additionally, a Profile can be set by a Develop Preset(see below), or can be established as a Default (see below).

If you save a camera Profile as a Default, and decide you want to revert back to the original Profile, I assume the Alt + Set Default, select Restore Adobe Default Settings will bring you back to what you refer as the original algorithm, yes?

Default - a collection of Develop mode settings that can be assigned for application to all images, always, at import time. These can be segregated by camera serial number if desired. One of the variables that can be set as a default is the camera calibration profile.

I understand completely... Let's suppose I shoot RAW using two bodies that by default yield very different image qualities, and I want to bring the results of each closer to what I feel/see as the look I want. Would I capture two images of the same subject, one from each body, Develop them to the same look and feel and then set the Default for each body so that the settings, though likely very different, are applied at ingestion in hopes of having similar starting points?

Also, I know I did it once in the past... How do I set the defaults as ISO specific settings?