Beyond Keywords and Collections: I need a Sorting Hat-

[clee01l]

I'm preparing a Powerpoint for a talk. I've given talks on this topic before and I want to a.) update my earlier talk and b.) incorporate new images.
I have selected over 2'' image candidates by filtering on keywords and placing the images in a static collection. Now I want to winnow these 2''+ images down to a select few to fit into the time constraints of my talk. How can I go about doing this inside a fully populated catalog that already has existing ratings, flags, and color labels?

One thought is to add/remove internal hieararchial keywords until I have a final set of about 5' images to build my talk around. Does anyone have any other/better ideas? I don't want to disrupt my existing flags, ratings and color labels. Another thought might be to export the 2''+ images to a temporary library. I am reluctant to create a sub-set catalog for this purpose since I would like to incorporate my final selection into the master catalog.

 

[Mozella]

Your idea seems the obvious solution. Just scroll through your selected images until you find a keeper, and add a keyword like "

[size=1''%]powerpoint[/size]​

". Keep adding that keyword until you get the 5' you want, edit if necessary, and then filter on the "

[size=1''%]powerpoint[/size]​

" keyword.

When you're done, remove the keyword, or leave it there for future reference. Sounds simple to me, unless I'm missing something.

 

[erro]

If you have the 2'' candidates in a static collection, then just delete the ones you don't want. That will just remove them from that collection, and they will still be in your catalogue and on your harddisk.

Once you have narrowed your static collection to the desired number of photos, select them all and give them a keyword.

 

[Denis Pagé]

Flags are local so just press "x" to reject unwanted ones and they will gray out. This let you change your mind before pressing Ctrl-Backspace to remove rejects from collection...

 

[Mark Sirota]

I agree -- erro's suggestion (just delete from the collection) if you're confident, or Denis' suggestion (use pick/reject flags, which are local to the collection) if you're not confident.

 

[clee01l]

[quote author=Mark Sirota link=topic=9178.msg61928#msg61928 date=1266358749]
I agree -- erro's suggestion (just delete from the collection) if you're confident, or Denis' suggestion (use pick/reject flags, which are local to the collection) if you're not confident.
[/quote]Flags are NOT local to a collection. If I reject(X) an image in a static collection and then right click and choose "Show in Folder" the Image retains its reject flag (X) If I go to the "All Photographs" section and search for the image by name, It still carries the Reject flag from the collection. This is NOT what I want. I do not want any reject flags(X) hanging around after I am through sorting spider images. I have adopted a a three collection approach based somewhat on "erro's" suggestion. Collection 1 is a Smart Collection that contains a keyword (spider) but is not in a collection that has Spider in the Name. I have two Static collections named "Spider Original Talk" and "Spider Candidate". When I physically drag an image from the smart collection to either of the Statec "Spider" collections, it dissappears from the smart collection. Later I plan to merge the two Static "Spider"Collections into a 4th "Smart" collection by adding an internal keyword (@Presentation). When I get to around 5', if I have remaining images in the two static collections that have no been reviewed, I will continue to review these remainders selecting only the "Gotta Haves" and then remove the "@presentation" keyword from images until I jave a manageable number for a presentation.

 

[Mark Sirota]

[quote author=clee'1l link=topic=9178.msg6193'#msg6193' date=1266363986]
Flags are NOT local to a collection. If I reject(X) an image in a static collection and then right click and choose "Show in Folder" the Image retains its reject flag (X) If I go to the "All Photographs" section and search for the image by name, It still carries the Reject flag from the collection.[/quote]

I cannot replicate this behavior. If I set a reject flag in a static collection, and then go to the Folder or to All Photographs, the file has no flags.

 

[clee01l]

[quote author=Mark Sirota link=topic=9178.msg61934#msg61934 date=1266373464]
[quote author=clee'1l link=topic=9178.msg6193'#msg6193' date=1266363986]
Flags are NOT local to a collection. If I reject(X) an image in a static collection and then right click and choose "Show in Folder" the Image retains its reject flag (X) If I go to the "All Photographs" section and search for the image by name, It still carries the Reject flag from the collection.[/quote]

I cannot replicate this behavior. If I set a reject flag in a static collection, and then go to the Folder or to All Photographs, the file has no flags.
[/quote]What can I say. My experience in Windows/LR2.6 was just the opposite of yours on my primary machine at least partially. On my primary machine, can set either pick or reject flag on the Smart collection and they remain set on the 'All Photos" section. If I set them in the "All Photos section" they are persistant in the Smart Collection. If I set them in a Static Collection, the behavior is as you describe. I tried the same test on my laptop and in both types of collection (Static and Smart) the behavior matches your expectations. I can not explain the different behavior in a smart collection on one of my machines. The Primary machine is 64 bit running LR 64 while the laptop is 32 bit running LR32 bit. Both are Win 7 machines.

 

[Denis Pagé]

I heard of a possible change in behavior for LR3 but not LR2.x :

 

[Victoria Bampton]

Ah, the key there is SMART collections, not standard collections. That's why you're seeing different things. Mark's correct about normal collections, Cletus is correct about smart collections.

 

[clee01l]

[quote author=Victoria Bampton link=topic=9178.msg61967#msg61967 date=1266437957]
Ah, the key there is SMART collections, not standard collections. That's why you're seeing different things. Mark's correct about normal collections, Cletus is correct about smart collections.
[/quote]I am sorry that I am correct about the difference being between smart and static collections. To have such different behavior is stupid. Unless I name my Smart collections using a different identifier from the Static collections, it is extremely easy to confuse the two. Other than something in the name, the only way to visually check the collection is to look at the icons which only differ by the shade of a few gray pixels in a gray icon on a gray background. As you can see even two Lightroom Gurus don't even know how this behavior is supposed to be. Except for how they are populated, Static and Smart collections should exhibit the same behavior. I am very surprised (and disappointed) that Adobe would do otherwise.

I guess in a way, I've been lucky. I only use the reject flag (X) for images I want to delete permanently from the HD. And since I don't get the same confirmations on delete when I delete from a collection, I always go back the the "All Photographs" or Local Folder to permanently delete my images. Also most of the time I create Smart collections and except for a project like this one, I rarely use static collections at all. This is probably the main reason I assumed the flag persistance was a valid behavior globally. In a Smart Collection, I had never encountered it or if I was working in a static collection, I did not recognise the behavior was different.

 

[Mark Sirota]

[quote author=clee'1l link=topic=9178.msg6198'#msg6198' date=1266459332]
I am sorry that I am correct about the difference being between smart and static collections. To have such different behavior is stupid. Unless I name my Smart collections using a different identifier from the Static collections, it is extremely easy to confuse the two.[/quote]

No need to apologize.

[quote author=clee'1l link=topic=9178.msg6198'#msg6198' date=1266459332]As you can see even two Lightroom Gurus don't even know how this behavior is supposed to be.[/quote]

If you're talking about me, I did know this. Your first post explicitly says "static collection", so that's what I answered. I'm not sure how we got into smart collections.

[quote author=clee'1l link=topic=9178.msg6198'#msg6198' date=1266459332]Except for how they are populated, Static and Smart collections should exhibit the same behavior. I am very surprised (and disappointed) that Adobe would do otherwise.[/quote]

They can't. Members of smart collections inherit most of their properties. A smart collection is built dynamically when you go to look at it; it doesn't exist if you're not looking. (A tree falling in the forest when nobody's listening makes no noise. Prove me wrong. )

 

[Denis Pagé]

I don't see how thay can behave the same as they are quite different beasts. Static collections are tables and don't change unless you add, remove or modify. On the other side, Smart Collections do not contain any data or table record. They are no more than an SQL Request.

I liked Mark's visual way of saying it: «A smart collection is built dynamically when you go to look at it; it doesn't exist if you're not looking». Because it is when you go look by clicking on it that the request is executed.

Altough I disagree with the falling three's noise as it still make noise. You just don't know. Smart Collection' SQL Requests are not making their noise (don't run) in the background...

 

[Brad Snyder]

My applause is as 'the sound of one hand clapping'.

I think it's safe to say that longterm Lr users, and 'gurus', are well aware that ratings and color labels are global and that pick flags are local; that's been a FAQ since day 1. The issue here is that dumb/static collections are independent repositories of images, while smart collections are a data management artifice for providing a global view of locally rooted images.

Makes sense to me that way; because of the ad hoc, transitory nature of a smart collection, I'm not sure how you'd expect to attach a local variable to its members. Give me a smart collection of all the images with 'Horse' keyword. Set these 5 Horse pictures as picks. Wait, that's not a Horse picture, change its keyword to Mule. What logical thing am I to do with its Pick parameter?

 

[Denis Pagé]

[quote author=Brad Snyder link=topic=9178.msg61994#msg61994 date=126651'44']
...Give me a smart collection of all the images with 'Horse' keyword...[/quote]

Simpler Brad, just click "All Photographs" :icon_mrgreen: :icon_lol: