Banding & Posterisation Issues **Solved Hopefully**

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sizzlingbadger

sizzlingbadger

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I recently had to send out 1' jpeg images for my PSNZ Honours application and was pretty annoyed when I get a reply a month later that it had been rejected as several images failed from a technical standpoint. The images contain banding & posterisation in the sky.

I can only apply once a year for this so I was not a very happy bunny when I received the letter >:D

I exported the images as Highest Quality jpegs 1'24p on the longest side.

Granted it is my fault for not checking them more thoroughly after export but...

I was very surprised that LR has given me such badly rendered jpegs so I did some more investigation. I used Capture NX to re-create the adjustments I had made (all of which were fairly subtle anyway) and had no problems with the skies.

I tried again in LR and still had the issues. I then looked very carefully at the previews in the Dev module at 1''% and noticed that the originals also have some posterisation so I think this is what causes the issue rather than the actual jpeg compression, that just highlights it.

I decided to try in Aperture 3 Trial but my trial time had expired ! I was so annoyed at the time I hit the buy button and bought the upgrade, I have Aperture 2 in my draw gathering dust so the upgrade option was quite cheap.

Again the files seemed fine.

I tested this again with other files using different Camera Calibration Profiles and they do seem to vary a bit. Oddly enough it was just the D7'' files with issues, all the D3'' files seemed ok.

After a bit more digging around it seems there has been a fair few complaints with the D3/D7'' image quality in LR. I tested LR3b but it has the exact same issues.

I really don't know what else to try so I have been importing my images into Aperture for now and will just to apply for PSNZ honours again next year :'(
 
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Re: Banding & Posterisation Issues

Were they captured as NEF or JPEG? Can you post one of them so we can take a look?

The image quality concerns people voice generally have nothing to do with posterization.
 
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Re: Banding & Posterisation Issues

They are NEFs, you can examples on my website blog of the kind of thing I'm seeing. It doesn't take a lot of digging with Google to find others with the same issues. Its frustrating as the D3'' NEFs are fine. I shall try LR3b2 and see if it is any better.
 
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Re: Banding & Posterisation Issues

Here is dng (NEFs are no different from what I can see)

http://web.me.com/player.nz/xxMISC/2''91216-224'4''-'2999.dng

Select the Camera Standard profile if it is not selected already and check out the sky. It may not be posterisation as such but it looks very similar. LR3b2 doesn't help either.

I haven't used Aperture for almost a year I think, I had forgotten just how nice the interface is and how easy it it is to get around, shame it so bl**dy slow :)
 
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Re: Banding & Posterisation Issues

Nice shot.

What you're seeing isn't posterization. It's color casts caused by the camera emulation profiles that have been dubbed "twisted profiles". I also find it's more pronounced for the D7'' profiles than it was for the D2''. The solution, as you've found, is to use Adobe Standard.
 
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Re: Banding & Posterisation Issues

That's hardly a solution really. I also see this when using the adobe standard profile although it is much more subtle. The images I sent in to the PSNZ board were created using the Adobe Standard not the Camera Standard. I sited that as an example as it it far easier to see. There is a definite issue with these profiles for the D7'' and many also complain of similar issues with the D3.

The hue twists do cause a posterisation effect, there is a definite step in the edges of the hues as well as the hue change itself.

I am going to try again to create a custom profile from an xrite card and see if I can get a result. For now though I have to say Aperture is doing an amazing job, it feels like a new camera. The D3'' is fine (colours need a bit of shift but that easy to fix) so I know what LR is capable of which what makes this problem so frustrating.

I suppose what really bothers me is Adobe haven't done anything to fix this despite it being a known issue, that is very Apple-like and I don't like that :)
 
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Re: Banding & Posterisation Issues

Here is a comparison.

I know it is very difficult to compare RAW conversions as there are quite a lot of adjustments / unknowns to deal with. I have done my best to keep this as fair as I can. The setting are default on all Apps. I boosted the exposure by '.8 stop on all Apps as the original was underexposed. LR3b2 is looking much better than LR2 especially with a corrected profile.

http://web.me.com/player.nz/xxMISC/LR2.jpg
http://web.me.com/player.nz/xxMISC/AP3.jpg
http://web.me.com/player.nz/xxMISC/CNX.jpg
http://web.me.com/player.nz/xxMISC/LR3b2.jpg (Using My Camera Profile)

You may need to download them and zoom in to get a better idea.
 
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Re: Banding & Posterisation Issues

Well first impressions are very good... at last !!!!!

[size=x-large]Thank you Adobe[/size] :p

I could almost cry :'( this has been such a PITA for me for so long !
 
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Re: Banding & Posterisation Issues

I am glad to hear it worked for you.


[quote author=sizzlingbadger link=topic=94'2.msg634'2#msg634'2 date=1269382353]
Well first impressions are very good... at last !!!!! thank you Adobe :p
I could almost cry :'( this has been such a PITA for me for so long !
[/quote]
 
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I'm using Camera Neutral v2 (D7'') with the Blue Hue set to -5 and it's spot on with the other settings set to Adobe's defaults.
 
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Okay will try tonight on the D7'', but we had a big storm on Monday and that has taken out my PC and router. Golfball sized hail and heavy winds shut off power to most of the city!
 
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[quote author=happycranker link=topic=94'2.msg63428#msg63428 date=12694'9'68]
Golfball sized hail and heavy winds shut off power to most of the city!
[/quote]
Yes, I've seen photos of the storm and its aftermath on the web. Looks like it was brutal for a while. Hope you and yours weren't too badly affected.
 
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Brad, We were fine and luckily the car was in the garage, thousands of cars and homes were smashed and there was a giant mud slide near work that swamped ground floor apartments. So a PSU and modem failure were nothing in comparison.
 
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I like Camera Standard v2. I'm going to switch to it by default in place of Adobe Standard for the D7'', to get a better feel for it over time.

(I used Camera Standard for the D2'', but didn't like it for the D7''.)
 
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I've been 'playing' about for the last couple of days and have decided to use Camera Standard v2 with the Tone Curve set to Linear as my defaults. I also set the Blue Hue to -5 as I find the default "NX-like" blues are too magenta for my liking.

I found Adobe Standard was too bright and had way too much cyan. I have been using my own profile that was based on Adobe Standard but had the cyan shifted and the tone curve reduced. I used the DNG profiler to create it.
 
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