backup software

[crbuckjr]

Lightroom Version Number

15.0.1

Operating System

1. Windows 11

Hi I am looking for advice on online backup software and software to backup locally to a external SSD.
I use LRC and have about 3 TB of photos...plus catalogs, etc. I work on two windows 11 desktops......winter/summer. I keep my photos on an 8 TB external SSD. I have two other 4 TB SSD's.

My thought is that I'd continually back up my photos and catalogs to the cloud for the off site option. And, that I would nightly copy/update a backup to one of the local 4 TB SSS's.

I have had the experience of not realizing that I had made a mistake and wanting to go back to a version that is say 4 months old. (I have been using Carbonite.....it doesn't save past versions for very long)

I am interested in thoughts/recommendations about an overall strategy. and about software/services for online backup and for backing up (changes only) overnight onto a local SSD.

Thanks for your advice

 

[Califdan]

You seem to be on the right track.

As you move between a summer and a winter computer, you may want to place your LrC catalog on the same EHD where your photos are and configure LrC to place the backups it takes when you exit on some other drive. One similar option is to keep the catalog on the internal drive but have LrC put the backups on the Images' EHD. Then just before you swap to the other computer copy the entire folder containing the catalog from the internal to the EHD

For local backups, as you are on Windows. there is a feature included called "File History" which is the Microsoft version of Apple's "Time Machine". This tool is a bit awkward but keeps version history of your files and can be configured (as I recall) to include External drives. There is also 3rd party SW that can do backups of various drives/folders on a schedule to copy files/folders to other locally connected drives. One I reccomend is GoodSync which also has a file history option. Of course with all these options you need to have a desitnation drive big enough to hold the desired data. Different options have different durations for which they keep versions.

As for Cloud backups, Carbonite is fine but could also look at CrashPlan and Backblaze each of which have unlimited data plans for around $100/year and these include EHD's. All of these have a version history option that can generally be extended to include 1 year of versions

 

[Mickey]

I hope I'm not hijacking this too much but I have a question about online backups that seems related.

I have been using a laptop for years with my photos on an external drive and both of them are backed up to the cloud via iDrive. Recently I purchased a new desktop with a secondary SSD installed. I decided to do a Restore from the cloud from my external drive to populate all my photos to the new secondary SSD. When the restore was finished I found that it included a lot more files than actually exist on the photo drive. After some investigation it turns out that the restore included every file I ever stored on that drive, including all the photos and other related files I had deleted over the years. Not what I wanted at all.

In the end I wiped the new SSD and just used GoodSync to copy from the external to the new (which was a better idea and much faster anyway). Live and learn.

My question relates to online backup. Is there a software that would be able to save my deleted files if I delete one accidentally, but will restore the current state or latest version of a drive? Or am I better off relying on cloud backup in case I delete a file that I later want back and take a periodic "image" of a drive on an EHD? Other suggestions?

 

[Califdan]

Yes there is.

Services like IDrive, OneDrive, Google Drive are more "file sharing" (which includes sharing between your own computers) type tools rather than "backup" type tools and usually lack many of the features one looks for in backup tools.

Goodsync is excellent for localback up to an external drive attached to your computer. But, make sure you set it up to backup any external drive or SSD you are using.

For cloud backup the two that are most commonly reccomended here (and by me) are BackBlaze and CrashPlan. I use both in parallel on my desktop computer. Both of these have unlimited data plans, which include external drives, and run around $100 per year. At lease for Backblaze (and perhaps Crashplan as followed suit) if you have a complete drive failure, for a fee, they will FedEx Overnight a drive or device that has all your data on it as it was when last seen by them. You then use a tool they provide to copy their drive to one of your own - ship their drive back to them in a prepaid box and then you get all or most of your "fee" back. This is a lot quicker than downloading several TB from their servers over the Internet. Some folks also like Carbon Copy Cloner and Carbonite for cloud backup and there are several other services out there as well.

 

[clee01l]

My question relates to online backup. Is there a software that would be able to save my deleted files if I delete one accidentally, but will restore the current state or latest version of a drive? Or am I better off relying on cloud backup in case I delete a file that I later want back and take a periodic "image" of a drive on an EHD? Other suggestions?.

This is the definition of a real backup app with version control. Apple's timeMachine does exactly what you want. There are windows base apps that do this also. You will need to let the Windows users tell you which works like tImeMachine.

I also Believe that BackBlaze can restore a file as it existed on a certain date.

 

[Mickey]

I'll have to look into various options.

I've seen BackBlaze mentioned frequently in this forum as recommended but I've haven't noticed any mention of the fact that they don't retain old versions unless you pay extra for the "forever" option. That option is mentioned on their website but I haven't found the pricing yet. One review I read states it is .006 per GB per month to retain copies of older files. This might not be too bad depending on how often a file changes or how many photos get culled after they are downloaded to Classic. I'll investigate it further but I may need to change my workflow to do culling before the photos land in Classic to minimize the impact.

iDrive does save everything. The only files that get actually deleted are those that the user physically deletes from the Cloud. It also has the ability to restore to a hard drive that they mail to you. It is certainly handy if you know what file was deleted in the past that you now decide you need. I may just have to add a periodic image backup in addition to my existing backups in order to restore as of a point in time.

Seems there's always more to learn. I've never needed to Restore a drive before so it never occurred to me my frequent backups were not really point in time.

 

[jrobnz]

I've mentioned it in other threads, but you might want to have a look at ARQ Premium (arqbackup.com). I believe it does everything you've asked without having to use different tools to make local and cloud backups. It can keep all your backup versions both locally and in the cloud or you can set your own retention schedules (eg. keep hourly backups for 24 hours, daily backups for 30 days, monthly for 24 months, etc).

You have full control of exactly which directories to backup and which types of files to exclude. You can have as many backup configurations as you want.

If file privacy is important it has encryption that adheres to best practice with a key that never leaves your computer, unlike BackBlaze. If you want to backup external drives it does that without any of the confusing restrictions that BackBlaze places on having to mount the disk every 30 days or lose data.

At first I found their pricing a little confusing, so here it is... the premium version is $5.99/mo or $59/year and includes unlimited local backups and 1TB of cloud storage. Additional cloud storage is $.00599/GB per month. The only difference between the non-premium and premium version is the bundled cloud storage. The non-premium is $49 for a perpetual license (not a subscription) and you supply your own cloud storage (eg. AWS S3, BackBlaze B2, Google, DropBox, OneDrive, etc). I suppose that might be perfect if all you want is local backups but I want cloud backups too.

I use it to keep daily versioned backups locally from an external SDD to an HDD and an hourly versioned backup to the cloud. I like that there's a unified interface so it's easy to see all my backups both local and cloud and I can restore any file(s) from any time period. It's all worked flawlessly for me

BTW: I'm not related in any way to this company, just a happy customer

 

[clee01l]

I'll have to look into various options.

I've seen BackBlaze mentioned frequently in this forum as recommended but I've haven't noticed any mention of the fact that they don't retain old versions unless you pay extra for the "forever" option. That option is mentioned on their website but I haven't found the pricing yet. One review I read states it is .006 per GB per month to retain copies of older files. This might not be too bad depending on how often a file changes or how many photos get culled after they are downloaded to Classic. I'll investigate it further but I may need to change my workflow to do culling before the photos land in Classic to minimize the impact.

iDrive does save everything. The only files that get actually deleted are those that the user physically deletes from the Cloud. It also has the ability to restore to a hard drive that they mail to you. It is certainly handy if you know what file was deleted in the past that you now decide you need. I may just have to add a periodic image backup in addition to my existing backups in order to restore as of a point in time.

Seems there's always more to learn. I've never needed to Restore a drive before so it never occurred to me my frequent backups were not really point in time.

The price I find is for B2 backups storage at $6/TB/Mo. Not exactly cheap for personal use. For this reason BackBlaze is never my only backup.

With BackBlaze offsite, I can recover from catastrophic events like fire, flood, civil strife etc. and the occasional "oops" of a stupid user mistake. I also have timeMachine for the "forever" issues and to restore the eventual disk failure more cheaply and quicker than buying a recovery disk from BackBlaze.

Also important. It is a good plan to test your recovery plan periodically to be able to be familiar with the steps you need when disatater strikes and you are not in "panic mode".

 

[Mickey]

I've mentioned it in other threads, but you might want to have a look at ARQ Premium (arqbackup.com). I believe it does everything you've asked without having to use different tools to make local and cloud backups. It can keep all your backup versions both locally and in the cloud or you can set your own retention schedules (eg. keep hourly backups for 24 hours, daily backups for 30 days, monthly for 24 months, etc).

You have full control of exactly which directories to backup and which types of files to exclude. You can have as many backup configurations as you want.

If file privacy is important it has encryption that adheres to best practice with a key that never leaves your computer, unlike BackBlaze. If you want to backup external drives it does that without any of the confusing restrictions that BackBlaze places on having to mount the disk every 30 days or lose data.

At first I found their pricing a little confusing, so here it is... the premium version is $5.99/mo or $59/year and includes unlimited local backups and 1TB of cloud storage. Additional cloud storage is $.00599/GB per month. The only difference between the non-premium and premium version is the bundled cloud storage. The non-premium is $49 for a perpetual license (not a subscription) and you supply your own cloud storage (eg. AWS S3, BackBlaze B2, Google, DropBox, OneDrive, etc). I suppose that might be perfect if all you want is local backups but I want cloud backups too.

I use it to keep daily versioned backups locally from an external SDD to an HDD and an hourly versioned backup to the cloud. I like that there's a unified interface so it's easy to see all my backups both local and cloud and I can restore any file(s) from any time period. It's all worked flawlessly for me

BTW: I'm not related in any way to this company, just a happy customer

Thanks for the insight. I'll check it out.

The price I find is for B2 backups storage at $6/TB/Mo. Not exactly cheap for personal use. For this reason BackBlaze is never my only backup.

With BackBlaze offsite, I can recover from catastrophic events like fire, flood, civil strife etc. and the occasional "oops" of a stupid user mistake. I also have timeMachine for the "forever" issues and to restore the eventual disk failure more cheaply and quicker than buying a recovery disk from BackBlaze.

Also important. It is a good plan to test your recovery plan periodically to be able to be familiar with the steps you need when disatater strikes and you are not in "panic mode".

I chose to do a Restore as a way to see how the recovery process works and I'm glad I did because I've now found the hole in my backup plans that I need to patch.

 

[camner]

Also important. It is a good plan to test your recovery plan periodically to be able to be familiar with the steps you need when disatater strikes and you are not in "panic mode".

Do you periodically do a complete restore from both TM and BackBlaze to your primary drive, or do you do a “spot check”?

 

[Califdan]

BackBlze keeps version history

Backblaze Personal Backup offers a Version History feature that allows you to recover older versions of files that have been changed, updated, or deleted from your computer or external drives.

You have three main options for Version History retention:

---

Version History Options​

Retention Period	Cost	What it Includes	Key Consideration
30 Days	Included with your standard Backblaze Personal Backup subscription.	You can restore older or deleted file versions for up to 30 days from the time they were modified or deleted from your backed-up computer/drive.	After 30 days, older versions and deleted files are permanently removed, leaving only the most recent version of your files (if the file still exists on your computer).
1 Year (Extended)	Free to enable for Backblaze Personal Backup.	Extends the retention of all file versions (changed or deleted) to one year from the date they were modified or deleted.	This is an optional feature you must manually enable in your Backblaze account settings.
Forever (Extended)	Additional monthly charge, plus a fee per GB per month for file versions older than one year.	Retains modified or deleted file versions indefinitely for as long as your account remains in good standing and the option is selected.	Charges apply for versions that were modified or deleted more than one year ago.

The "Forever" fee is $0.006 per GB per month and is applied only to the size of the file versions or deleted files that have been retained for more than one year on the Backblaze servers.

 

[Mickey]

@Califdan - Thanks for clarifying the pricing. That's much better than I was expecting based on what I had read. If I lose my drive and need to do a Restore, can I just tell BackBlaze to restore the latest version of each file? That would avoid the problem I had where all my deleted files wee restored with no easy way for me to identify them to "redelete".

 

[jrobnz]

Also important. It is a good plan to test your recovery plan periodically to be able to be familiar with the steps you need when disatater strikes and you are not in "panic mode".

Very good advice

@Califdan - Thanks for clarifying the pricing. That's much better than I was expecting based on what I had read. If I lose my drive and need to do a Restore, can I just tell BackBlaze to restore the latest version of each file? That would avoid the problem I had where all my deleted files wee restored with no easy way for me to identify them to "redelete".

As noted above, give that a try in their free trial. When I tried it, I found you have to go through each backup manually looking for the latest version of each file to find the one you want to restore. This also requires navigating the file hierarchy after knowing when you deleted the file. Step 5 of https://www.backblaze.com/computer-backup/docs/create-a-restore-of-deleted-or-previous-file-versions

But how do you know when the latest version of the file was backed up? There doesn't appear to be a search function that allows you to enter a file name and search for all versions including the last before delete. If you do end up trialing ARQ there's a very fast search function that shows all versions of a file across all backups. This might also be a feature of other backup software but it was just one of the reasons I chose not to use BackBlaze.

 

[Califdan]

When I tried it, I found you have to go through each backup manually looking for the latest version of each file to find the one you want to restore. This also requires navigating the file hierarchy after knowing when you deleted the file. Step 5 of https://www.backblaze.com/computer-backup/docs/create-a-restore-of-deleted-or-previous-file-versions

Not how exactly how I understand it.

Restore to a point in time: At the top of the restore app screen put in the "As of" date and time. Select the drive, folders, and/or files to be restored. Have it restore to same location

Recover latest version of deleted files only (leaving not deleted files as is). The general idea here is this (look up specific steps). You would need to know the approximate date of the earliest accidentally deleted file. Then there is a process restoring the files that existed on that date TO A DIFFERENT LOCATION. Then, copy the restored files to the real locations and tell the copy utility DON'T OVERWRITE FILES WITH LATER DATES (or however your OS words it). This would leave the files already there alone but would fill in with the ones that had been deleted. Apparently in their latest state before being deleted (see specific instructions)

 

[Mickey]

Lots of information here. Lots of research and testing to do. Here I am trying to simplify things! Looks like I've got my work cut out for me. All the information you've all provided is very helpful. I'd much rather have recommendations from real users. Thank you all.

 

[jrobnz]

Recover latest version of deleted files only (leaving not deleted files as is). The general idea here is this (look up specific steps). You would need to know the approximate date of the earliest accidentally deleted file. Then there is a process restoring the files that existed on that date TO A DIFFERENT LOCATION. Then, copy the restored files to the real locations and tell the copy utility DON'T OVERWRITE FILES WITH LATER DATES (or however your OS words it). This would leave the files already there alone but would fill in with the ones that had been deleted. Apparently in their latest state before being deleted (see specific instructions)

But that's one of the reasons I didn't continue using BackBlaze. If you want to restore a deleted file you have to try to remember when it was deleted and navigate through the directory hierarchy to where the file was located and hope your date range contains the latest version. Here's the ARQ steps to recover a file from any point in time:

1. Enter a filename or portion in the search box and a list of versions across all backups (cloud or local) and across all times is immediately presented as you type. If the file has been deleted, choose the most recent version. Otherwise choose the previous version of the file to revert it.

2. Click on the version you want to restore and this dialog appears:

 

[clee01l]

Do you periodically do a complete restore from both TM and BackBlaze to your primary drive, or do you do a “spot check”?

I don't do a complete restore from BackBlaze because the time involved to D/L a complete disk is unreasonable. If I ever need it, I'll have BackBlaze ship me a disk of the backup. Twice though I have needed to restore a replacement Primary disk from my TimeMachine backup. I satisfy myself in knowing that I can do it again if necessary and don't feel the need to repeat the process periodically. My Spot checks about once per year keeps me familiar with the restore process in timeMachine and BackBlaze.

 

[camner]

I haven’t looked at ARQ in quite a while, but I remember that when I was looking into backup systems, I read a couple of reviews that noted that ARQ was fabulous, but not simple and had a steep learning curve (hmmm…that should sound familiar to those of us here, since we use LrC!). I decided that for my tertiary backup (now BackBlaze, used to be CrashPlan), simplicity was a virtue higher up the hierarchy than completeness.

Has ARQ changed in this respect?

 

[Mickey]

... I decided that for my tertiary backup (now BackBlaze, used to be CrashPlan), simplicity was a virtue higher up the hierarchy than completeness.

AMEN to that! I find that as I get older I need to make things simpler. Setting up my new computer has been an experience. I had quite a few backup and file syncing jobs set up that all worked flawlessly, but now that I'm trying to redo them on a new set-up my brain is having trouble remembering all the logic behind what I did years ago. After my issue with the drive that started my posts here I'm rethinking my entire backup plan. Once I have it worked out I may post it here (or maybe a new thread would be better???) for thoughts and opinions from the knowledgeable experts.

 

[jrobnz]

I haven’t looked at ARQ in quite a while, but I remember that when I was looking into backup systems, I read a couple of reviews that noted that ARQ was fabulous, but not simple and had a steep learning curve (hmmm…that should sound familiar to those of us here, since we use LrC!). I decided that for my tertiary backup (now BackBlaze, used to be CrashPlan), simplicity was a virtue higher up the hierarchy than completeness.

Has ARQ changed in this respect?

I'm thinking that must have been before they introduced their "premium" subscription. I didn't use it then but back at that time you had to have and configure your own cloud storage provider. You can still do that, but the premium version comes with their own and so it's quite simple now. The concept is you can have multiple backup "plans". Each plan describes the drives & directories you want to backup, how often (hourly, daily, etc) and a few options if you want to exclude directories or files.

By default it comes with a plan that mirrors BackBlaze but you can modify that plan. I actually found it simpler than BackBlaze because BB has complexity around the various versioning options like Extended or Forever Version History and complicated rules around external drives. In BB by default you will lose your version history (>30 days) unless you choose one of the options. Also, at the time I tried it, BB didn't allow you to control how long versions are retained in Forever mode. It was all or nothing so your storage costs would just keep increasing. ARQ defaults to keeping all versions forever so you would never lose any data if you did nothing (opt-out vs opt-in). But you can change the retention parameters to reduce storage costs if you want (eg. keep hourly backups for a day, daily's for 3 months, monthly's for 3 years, yearly forever).

You can then add new plans if you want to do multiple backups to different devices. And that addresses this:

AMEN to that! I find that as I get older I need to make things simpler. Setting up my new computer has been an experience. I had quite a few backup and file syncing jobs set up that all worked flawlessly, but now that I'm trying to redo them on a new set-up my brain is having trouble remembering all the logic behind what I did years ago. After my issue with the drive that started my posts here I'm rethinking my entire backup plan. Once I have it worked out I may post it here (or maybe a new thread would be better???) for thoughts and opinions from the knowledgeable experts.

I totally agree. I previously had a combination of scripts and other tools that periodically copied files to local external drives or a NAS in combination with a cloud backup. But I've eliminated all of that and now my local external drives have full version histories too. In ARQ you just create another backup plan with whatever directories you want to copy (or default to everything like BB) and which drive or NAS you want to put it on. For me the great advantage of that is there's only one place to look where it's all setup the same way and I'm not relying on my memory of what I did. It's also easy to verify everything is working as intended from a single unified interface. It also sends you an email if any of your backups fail.

Hope this info helps. When I got my last new computer and was thinking about a new backup solution I trialled a few of them and if you're on the fence on what to use I'd suggest doing the same thing. Just be sure to also test restoring directories and files too on all the tools you are testing. Your criteria might be different than mine but whatever your chose you'll end up being familiar with how easy or hard it might be if disaster strikes and you are in the heat of the moment.

 

[camner]

I'm thinking that must have been before they introduced their "premium" subscription. I didn't use it then but back at that time you had to have and configure your own cloud storage provider. You can still do that, but the premium version comes with their own and so it's quite simple now. The concept is you can have multiple backup "plans". Each plan describes the drives & directories you want to backup, how often (hourly, daily, etc) and a few options if you want to exclude directories or files.

By default it comes with a plan that mirrors BackBlaze but you can modify that plan. I actually found it simpler than BackBlaze because BB has complexity around the various versioning options like Extended or Forever Version History and complicated rules around external drives. In BB by default you will lose your version history (>30 days) unless you choose one of the options. Also, at the time I tried it, BB didn't allow you to control how long versions are retained in Forever mode. It was all or nothing so your storage costs would just keep increasing. ARQ defaults to keeping all versions forever so you would never lose any data if you did nothing (opt-out vs opt-in). But you can change the retention parameters to reduce storage costs if you want (eg. keep hourly backups for a day, daily's for 3 months, monthly's for 3 years, yearly forever).

You can then add new plans if you want to do multiple backups to different devices. And that addresses this:



I totally agree. I previously had a combination of scripts and other tools that periodically copied files to local external drives or a NAS in combination with a cloud backup. But I've eliminated all of that and now my local external drives have full version histories too. In ARQ you just create another backup plan with whatever directories you want to copy (or default to everything like BB) and which drive or NAS you want to put it on. For me the great advantage of that is there's only one place to look where it's all setup the same way and I'm not relying on my memory of what I did. It's also easy to verify everything is working as intended from a single unified interface. It also sends you an email if any of your backups fail.

Hope this info helps. When I got my last new computer and was thinking about a new backup solution I trialled a few of them and if you're on the fence on what to use I'd suggest doing the same thing. Just be sure to also test restoring directories and files too on all the tools you are testing. Your criteria might be different than mine but whatever your chose you'll end up being familiar with how easy or hard it might be if disaster strikes and you are in the heat of the moment.

Maybe I will give ARQ at least a brief look before my BackBlaze subscription renews in 6 months. There definitely are a couple of things about BackBlaze that I find cumbersome, including the need to reconnect external drives every 30 days in order to keep them backed up. That's not a problem with my "always on" externals, but I do have a couple that I don't keep always connected. The other thing that's just a bit weird about how BB works is that if you reconnect the drive that hasn't been connected continuously, it can take several hours of continuous connection with the computer not sleeping for it to back up even just a small number of new files that don't take much space. I don't know why that's the case, but I have found it to be true ever since I started with them. I have also found the "inherit" process when I move to a new computer to be problematical. I don't think I've ever had it go perfectly the first time I tried. But, to their credit, their tech support to help me straighten that out has been flawless each time.

 

[BobT]

My question relates to online backup. Is there a software that would be able to save my deleted files if I delete one accidentally, but will restore the current state or latest version of a drive? Or am I better off relying on cloud backup in case I delete a file that I later want back and take a periodic "image" of a drive on an EHD? Other suggestions?

When talking of backup software, it's usually for full data backup in the event of a catastrophic failure such as a disk crash. It's very important if not essential. The guys have given great suggestions above.
However, I'm not sure but if your issue is more to do with "accidentally" deleting a file, say during culling, it's another matter. No matter, deletions are protected by you Recycle Bin or Trash, but even better, LrC has a nifty "Make a second copy to:" feature in the import dialogue box. It stores a 2nd copy of everything you import into a folder of you choice. The 2nd copy folder is simply a temp dump folder independent of the catalogue. It's handy for easily recovery previously culled images. Recovery is simply drag and drop from the 2nd copy folder to the appropriate image folder, then synchronise and import into the catalogue. The downside is that the 2nd copy folder grows quickly, so needs regular cleaning out. I figure anything in the 2nd copy folder older than two months is history, so I delete it. It would be nice if LrC did this automatically.

 

[jrobnz]

I disagree on the desirability of versioned backups. Besides protecting you from inadvertent deletes that you immediately recognize, it lets you roll back updates to any file like a document or something else you are working on. And you won't always know that a file has been corrupted or had a bad update made until its too late. And as a side effect it also protects you from ransomware.

This is the key reason while most folks here tend to view file sharing services like OneDrive, Google Drive, etc not as a sufficient backup

And for what it's worth... a versioned backup typically only stores incremental changes so it's pretty space efficient. Essentially it means your cloud backup serves the same purpose as Time Machine but protects you from local losses like disk failures, fires, theft, etc. Just like TimeMachine you can drag and drop or restore any version of a file to wherever you want it. No need to re-import

In my view, backups need to be frequent, fully automatic and set-and-forget. If you have to remember to do something, make some setting, or manually remove old copies and so on you are setting yourself up for trouble

 

[clee01l]

In my view, backups need to be frequent, fully automatic and set-and-forget.

That is my backup philosophy too.

 

[crbuckjr]

Thanks....helpful thoughts. I like that Crashplan and Backblaze