Backup (or copy) - I'm really confused

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colinm85

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OK so I get that backing up the catalog doesnt do the images. And I get that if I had backed up on import I wouldnt be having any issues. I've read thru multiple threads to try to find the answer to this question, but all I can find is people saying they use another program to do backups of their computer. So here is the question as simply as I can ask it.

Is there any way to copy or backup my ACTUAL raw images from one hard drive to another within Lightroom. If not, will copying them thru Windows Explorer to the other hard drive work (I suspect not).

I dont want to change the format, I want to take my RAW images.

Thanks for any help
 
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From Lightroom, you can do if you select what you want to backup and export as catalog but the trick here is to put a check mark to "Include digital negatives". "Include previews" is not necessary for backup purpose but help if sending a catalog to another computer.

Copying your originals to a second drive from Explorer will work. What is not good is only to move them with explorer.
 
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Denis, Thank you. Now another question: If I need to restore because I lose my hard drive, would the copies I took using Exploror be OK if I can get them back to the original drive and path? Thanks again for your help

Colin
 
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In short, as long as you didn't lose the catalog in the hard drive crash, you'd be fine.

Also, keep in mind that if you don't have the catalog preference checked to automatically write changes to XMP (and if you don't specifically save the settings to the file/sidecar after making them), all keywords, development settings, etc. are stored in the catalog and not with the images. So, if you tried to access the RAW files separately or if you lost the catalog, all the work inside lightroom (keywords, development, etc.) would be lost.
 
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Colin, and for a seamless restoration, it's critically important that your backup image files retain the identical folder structure of the working files.

So, if you have a backup copy of the catalog file (some_catalog_name.lrcat) and the backup copy of the raw folder tree, you should be good to go.
 
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colinm85;4523' said:
Denis, Thank you. Now another question: If I need to restore because I lose my hard drive, would the copies I took using Exploror be OK if I can get them back to the original drive and path?
Click to expand...
Lets talk paths: Suppose your actual working drive is C: and Backup drive X: and the photos are under C:\Documents_and_Settings\LoginName\My_documents\My_pictures all in different subfolders. What you want to avoid in Lightroom is seeing just a list of all those subfolders. For best results, Lightroom should show you the My_pictures above them. If you actually just have the subfolders list, just right-click on one and choose "Add parent folder".

Also, you wont need to recreate
C:\Documents_and_Settings\LoginName\My_documents\My_pictures\*
on
X:\Documents_and_Settings\LoginName\My_documents\My_pictures\*
but you can simply make
X:\My_pictures\*

Of equal importance, next time Lightroom ask you to make a backup of the .lrcat database, check that it goes to the backup drive and use the "Choose..." button to relocate if needed.
 
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Thanks to those who replied. I believe I have what I need now. I have identical paths on 2 different drives. Now just need to make sure my catalogs are backed up. On that note, I have created several catalogs. Do I have to open and explicitly save each one, or will all catalogs be backed up on my normal schedule? Thanks
 
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Lightroom's backup procedure is only backing up the current catalog. It will not backup all your different catalogs (.lrcat databases) at once. But anytime, you can just copy all those .lrcat with Windows Explorer.
 
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Can I add to this please? A new user of Lightroom, and could not believe my bad luck when 3 days ago my second internal drive died. (3 month old Seagate SATA 1TB). Lightroom backed up the DNGs to a third external drive with the Catalogue too. BUT what I cannot seem to find an answer to is - 'does Lightroom have the facility to recover the original directory structure?' I like many had files in a yyyy/mm/dd nesting directory structure. LRoom backed them all up to a single directory. Apart from re-importing them and allowing the to be auto sorted I cannot see any other means of doing it.. Thankfully as I am new to this I can start again with not too many tears. If someone far cleverer than I can clarify this I would be very grateful.
 
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Amberklene, welcome to the forums. Sorry you're having trouble.
Important: re-importing to an existing catalog is rarely the correct procedure.

So, you have image files backed up by Lr at original import time, and you have catalogs backed up chronologically, by Lr's built-in 'start-up' backup procedure? If that's the case, I see you've discovered the flaw in that method. (Spilt milk, but many folks use the import time backups just to feel/be secure in re-using their flash memory. They create yet another separate copy of the actual post-import file/folder structure for disaster recovery)

Have a look at a post I just made, which explains using a new empty catalog to reimport/copy the images again, with the intent of discarding it, once the original file/folder structure is duplicated, and the old catalog is linked to the new files/folders.

Take small steps using this method, to incrementally test the results as satisfactory.
 
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So to Denis's reply, if I just copy my lrcat files using Windows copy and paste when I think I need a backup, I've achieved the same as opening and closing all my catalogs and having Lightroom back them up for me. Is that right?

On that vein, I'm sure there are threads that deal with the advantages and disadvantages of multiple catalogs vs just one. Can someone either summarize them or point me to one? Thanks
 
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Doesn't Lightroom backup of the catalog include checking the catalog and repairing it as necessary (plus compacting it), whereas an operating system copy doesn't include checking, repairing and compacting?
 
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Yes Paige. But as Lightroom won't have the information that those were manually backed up, on opening them, if backup time reached, Lightroom will offer to check integrity.
 
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Many thanks Brad. I read your other thread and will just start again. I had imported around 2''' images and allowed LR to convert and 'nest' as DNGs. I had tagged only a few and created a couple of collections as part of the learning process. My master backup of the CR2 files is intact on another external drive and I feel as I had only started with LR I will put it down to experience. I am glad the drive failed when it did - so to speak - rather than months down the line. The drive is being shipped back to Seagate for replacement.

I think I will disable the auto backup it seems of little use. I will just copy the LR images folder to an external drive to retain the structure as I would do with any other image folder and add to that the catalogue file for safekeeping.

Off to have a look at your flickr work now :)
 
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Amberklene said:
...I think I will disable the auto backup it seems of little use. I will just copy the LR images folder to an external drive to retain the structure as I would do with any other image folder and add to that the catalogue file for safekeeping.
Click to expand...
Bear in mind tough that by manually copying the catalogs, you won't have the option to make an integrity check on them... (See attachement)

EDIT: You can check the integrity of a catalog if you press Alt/Opt immediately when starting Lightroom. You will then see a checkbox to that effect...
 
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Thanks for the input Denis, but I am still baffled by this. Please bear with me as I have said LR is new to me - PCs and backup routines are not :)

If I have understood the LR 'backup' correctly it is fundamentally interested in storing a backup of all orignial files for the odd occassion when an image or images are accidentally deleted. It is not designed for the wholesale repbuild of a drive or complete directory structure that has bit the dust.

The integrity check appears to be confirming that the files in the backup directory are a match for the files within the LR folder. IF (and it is an IF) I am understanding the database file structure, restoring a corrupt hdd from this internal LR backup is a nonsense. You can dump all your images back into a single folder and have LR find them again for you - but it will be unable to automatically restore the directory structure. Also it is not a true backup as although I have requested the files be converted to DNG the LR backup is copying them into its backup folder as the original raw files? So a restore from those would require a complete re-import - and other writers here imply thats a surefire way to ruin the database?

I now copy images into LR and convert to DNG, I then copy the raw files to an external drive. I then also copy the whole LR directory to another external drive. I therefore have a working LR directory - a backup of the LR directory and a copy of the original raws - which would be a nightmare in a worst case scenario to rebuid. As the backup of the directory is error checked surely this is the only effective method of sleeping well at night?

Please Please tell me I am wrong and that the LR backup is not designed to work on a single folder scenario... It would be soo much easier to backup then!
 
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I'll chip on here.
The LR back up is of the catalog only. The catalog contains no image files.
For safety and peace of mind what is needed is a back up of your LR catalog file - this can be done with LR, and a backup of your raw files - this is best done with an OS level back up system.
From your post a flow that would work is to import to LR converting to DNG (this is what you do). Then all you need to do is make a copy (back up) of the DNG files to another drive, with the same folder structure, while placing on the same back up drive the back up copy of the LR catalog file.
You end up with a copy of the catalog and the image files in two places.
 
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As Geoff says. And the only other thing you may consider is to backup your presets and plugins. Lightroom backup procedure just backup a single file checking it is a valid functioning database.
 
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Yes - thanks muchly, that agrees with the method I have now adopted... Will certainly back up the presets and plug ins as and when I get to adding to the factory installed ones :) spent last night tagging 19'' images that I imported for the first time, I so hope this is worth it in the long term...
 
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OK I just read this again, and I think I'm OK, but will ask for advice one more time to try to avoid doing anything stupid. I have my RAW images on 2 external hard drives, and have been using a laptop to do my manipulation on one of them. I do backup the catalogs. I have recently bought a desktop to do the majority of my editing on. So I want to continue to use my hard drive(s) as backups, but transfer my main work area to the C drive of my desktop. Is the best way to achieve this to copy (OS) the images from my main external drive to my C drive, and then do a catalog restore to the C drive? If not, can someone point me in the right direction. Thanks

Colin
 
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Pretty close, Colin.

You're going to want to copy both the image files and the working catalog file (*.lrcat) to the new machine. There are default locations, depending on OS, but custom locations will work fine as well.

It may go easier if you leave the two groupings of image files (one from each external) segregated on the new C: drive. Then just open the catalog file in it's new location, note that it can't find the images, as indicated by ? icons on both the folders and the images. Right click on the top most folder available for one of the former drives, select 'Find Missing Folder...' and navigate to the new C: drive location. Repeat for the files copied from the second external drive. Once everything's OK, you can then work out how you want to merger of the formerly separate groupings to look. And, if you reorganize at that level, your current back up (formerly originals) on the external drives may end up slightly out of sync. No harm in that, temporarily, but you'll want to consider that as well.

This will be expedited if you have a single topmost file folder on each of the moved groupings.
Otherwise, you spend a lot of time repeating the 'Find..' for each folder on the topmost level.

You will also want to copy your prefs, presets, templates, etc.. Tell us what OS, etc, we'll tell you what to copy.
 
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OK finally got time to copy the images. Seems OK. But, as noted I didnt get the presets, etc. I am copying from XP to Vista. Thanks for any help

Colin
 
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The presets are stored here:

Windows XP - [systemdrive]\Documents and Settings\[your username]\Application
Data\Adobe\Lightroom\Presets\

Windows Vista - [systemdrive]\Users\[your username]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe
\Lightroom\Presets\

*Credit to Victoria's e-book for the handy reference.
 
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