Auto Tone in Develop Module not accurate toning

[with1goodi]

Lightroom Version

CC 2022

Operating System

1. macOS 10.15 Catalina

Using the Auto Tone button in LR I get consistently under-exposed settings back. My monitor is calibrated and if I look at the finished histogram I can see that mid-tones are under-exposed. I opened the same images in PS (original, no LR adjustments) and the Auto Tone in PS (Curves and/or Levels) is much different and more accurate.
Anyone else experiencing this? And is there a work-around?

 

[Jimmsp]

I really don't know what to say - except that when I use auto tone in LR or PS on the same raw photo, I get exactly the same results. I would expect this since both use the same Adobe Raw plugin .
No curves or levels adjusted; just the auto tone.
Here are two screen shots. The first is from LR, the second from PS.
White balance was set from white paper in lower left
I chose this image for its wide tonal range. I would adjust a bit more to my liking, but the auto tone in LR gives me a great place to start.

 

[Kierphoto]

Using the Auto Tone button in LR I get consistently under-exposed settings back. My monitor is calibrated and if I look at the finished histogram I can see that mid-tones are under-exposed. I opened the same images in PS (original, no LR adjustments) and the Auto Tone in PS (Curves and/or Levels) is much different and more accurate.
Anyone else experiencing this? And is there a work-around?

Have you cropped the image? Having just the slightest white border gives you under exposed Auto Tone.

 

[johnrellis]

when I use auto tone in LR or PS on the same raw photo, I get exactly the same results. I would expect this since both use the same Adobe Raw plugin .

I think you are referring to Auto button in Camera Raw, while @with1goodi is referring to the Auto button in the Photoshop Levels adjustment -- they're completely different beasts.

 

[Jimmsp]

I think you are referring to Auto button in Camera Raw, while @with1goodi is referring to the Auto button in the Photoshop Levels adjustment -- they're completely different beasts.

I did say "auto tone" using Camera Raw.
I know what you are saying - the OP said " the Auto Tone in PS (Curves and/or Levels) " which is a bit confusing, as the curves and levels have a "auto" button, not an "auto tone"; and the "auto" button in Camera Raw is in the same place as the LRC button next to the Tone group.
I first wanted to get a response as to exactly what he was doing, as "auto curves" is not the same as "auto exposure, et al"
And I am not sure if he is processing raws or out of the camera jpegs.
There is a "auto tone" in the PS menu under the "Image" tab. It is very subtle as best I can tell and different from the auto in Camera Raw.

He also said "Using the Auto Tone button in LR I get consistently under-exposed settings back", which I sometimes see in some photos if there is a very bright area like a window in a darker room.

 

[with1goodi]

I really don't know what to say - except that when I use auto tone in LR or PS on the same raw photo, I get exactly the same results. I would expect this since both use the same Adobe Raw plugin .
No curves or levels adjusted; just the auto tone.
Here are two screen shots. The first is from LR, the second from PS.
White balance was set from white paper in lower left
I chose this image for its wide tonal range. I would adjust a bit more to my liking, but the auto tone in LR gives me a great place to start.
View attachment 17628
View attachment 17629

I have checked and I am using the same version of ACR in both LR and PS. But if you look at your Histogram in your LR screen shot you can see that the White tones are not pushed to the right as much as your PS one. LR version does look different.

 

[with1goodi]

Have you cropped the image? Having just the slightest white border gives you under exposed Auto Tone.

I get the same darker type images with all my images

 

[with1goodi]

I did say "auto tone" using Camera Raw.
I know what you are saying - the OP said " the Auto Tone in PS (Curves and/or Levels) " which is a bit confusing, as the curves and levels have a "auto" button, not an "auto tone"; and the "auto" button in Camera Raw is in the same place as the LRC button next to the Tone group.
I first wanted to get a response as to exactly what he was doing, as "auto curves" is not the same as "auto exposure, et al"
And I am not sure if he is processing raws or out of the camera jpegs.
There is a "auto tone" in the PS menu under the "Image" tab. It is very subtle as best I can tell and different from the auto in Camera Raw.

He also said "Using the Auto Tone button in LR I get consistently under-exposed settings back", which I sometimes see in some photos if there is a very bright area like a window in a darker room.

It consistently looks like the Auto Tone button in LR pushes back (to the left) the White tones.

 

[Jimmsp]

I have checked and I am using the same version of ACR in both LR and PS. But if you look at your Histogram in your LR screen shot you can see that the White tones are not pushed to the right as much as your PS one. LR version does look different.

I will admit that I don't look at the histograms very closely. I generally use them for guides and for indications of possible blowout of highlights.
Here are the histograms as shown by LR and PS for this same raw file - untouched and unprocessed. No "auto " anything. Both from Camera Raw. Both should, in principle, be the same. To my eyes, the photos look the same.
LR

PS

And here is a Capture One v12 histogram of the .dng file

The Adobe versions both had the Adobe Color profile assigned, which probably changes the details as compared to CO. The CO photo is pretty "rough" as compared to the LR/PS.

I may look at another photo or two later today, but I doubt I will see what you are seeing.
Jim

 

[with1goodi]

Thanks for this. My Whites never go as far to the right as your examples do.
I only use Auto Tone as a starting point or if I want to do multiple files for a quick proof for my clients.

 

[johnrellis]

The Auto button in LR (which Adobe now calls Auto Settings, not Auto Tone) and in Camera Raw often produce much different results than PS's Levels > Auto. I often see the LR Auto Settings not shift the highlights and whites to the right as much as I'd prefer.

LR/CR Auto Settings is an AI (machine learning) algorithm trained on thousands of adjusted photos provided by professional photographers. The algorithm is trying to approximate the collective preferences of those photographers as to what they consider to be "good" overall adjustments using the tone sliders (Exposure through Blacks) and Vibrance and Saturation. Often that collective judgement is pretty close to what I prefer, and often not. My judgement of what's "underexposed" doesn't always match Auto.

Whereas the PS Levels > Auto algorithm is simpler -- it sets the black, mid, and white points using one of four simpler algorithms that examine the overall and per-channel histograms:

I haven't tried all the algorithms extensively, but they appear to consistently set the black and white points so as to clip just a small percentage of the low and high ends of the histogram. From what @withgoodi has said, that appears to match his preferences for overall exposure.

 

[johnrellis]

One thing to be aware of using LR/CR Auto Settings: Applying it to a batch of photos, using presets, Copy/Sync Settings, or Auto Sync, can often produce results significantly different than when clicking the Auto button in Develop on individual photos:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/ligh...ull-resolution-image-data/idc-p/12252692#M569

When applying Auto Settings to a batch of photos, to make it go faster the algorithm uses lower-resolution versions of the photos stored in the ACR "negative cache", rather than the full-resolution versions. In my fairly extensive testing, about 6% of the time that produces visually noticeable differences, sometimes quite large.

You can tell when a batch-applied Auto Settings is producing different results: In the Develop panel, the Auto button will be highlighted. If you click it, you'll see the "true" Auto results.

 

[Jimmsp]

You can tell when a batch-applied Auto Settings is producing different results: In the Develop panel, the Auto button will be highlighted. If you click it, you'll see the "true" Auto results.

Thanks, John, for this. I had noticed the same thing. But wasn't sure why.
And thanks for the previous comments on the discussion of "auto". I have rarely used any of the "auto" functions in PS.