Apple to transition by 2022 to new CPU chip, away from Intel

[PhilBurton]

Of possible interest for people contemplating a purchase/upgrade within the next year or so away from Intel architecture CPUs. After 15 Years, Apple Prepares to Break Up With Intel

I have no idea if Apple has shared this plan with Adobe, so there is no way to know how well Adobe is prepared with a Lightroom version that runs on systems with the new CPUs.

Phil Burton

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Apple/Adobe apparently demonstrated Lightroom and Photoshop running on a ARM Mac, so yes they did share this plan. I also understand that porting is not a very difficult or time consuming project.

 

[clee01l]

I held off switching from Windows to Mac only when Apple switched to Intel Part of my incentive was to be able to run Windows as a Virtual Machine. I no longer have a VM Windows on my Mac. So this is not so important.
I was not thrilled with the performance of the PowerPC processors from IBM and felt that Intel clearly had the edge. As Of late Intel has stumbled a bit and it will be interesting to see if Apple can successfully manufacture a chip superior to the Intel chips currently in use.

Interestingly, it might be possible to run iPad/iPhone apps under the new ARM based MacOS.

 

[PhilBurton]

Apple/Adobe apparently demonstrated Lightroom and Photoshop running on a ARM Mac, so yes they did share this plan. I also understand that porting is not a very difficult or time consuming project.

Johan,

Porting may or may not be very difficult or time-consuming. It depends on several different software design decisions. It also helps if the stars are aligned just so.

From my experience working with software engineers, a straight port may result in very slow operation at first, and also a lot of subtle bugs. A "demonstration" could be very incomplete, or buggy, or little more than the splash screen. Been there more than once.

Phil Burton

 

[Gnits]

I think it is a very interesting development and will likely shake up the market. Also, it will take 2 or 3 years to really see how successful this will be in practice (in particular ensuring existing users have all the apps they currently use on the new platform).

I have abandoned my Mac laptop in favour of Windows Recently and am really glad I have done that. My next workstation build (10 years since last workstation build) will have a top of the range Ryzen, motherboard, nvme drives, maxed out memory, Graphics card of my choice, etc), so I do not have to worry about an evolving hardware platform.

I suppose Apple will have to make sure their early processors will deliver serious bang for buck. I hope they do. It will be an interesting project to watch from the side.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Porting may or may not be very difficult or time-consuming. It depends on several different software design decisions. It also helps if the stars are aligned just so.
From my experience working with software engineers, a straight port may result in very slow operation at first, and also a lot of subtle bugs. A "demonstration" could be very incomplete, or buggy, or little more than the splash screen. Been there more than once.

If Adobe already has a version of Lightroom (desktop) and Photoshop for the ARM processor, then I do not see any big problem to get a version of Lightroom Classic too.

 

[Gnits]

Agreed, I am not worried about the big fish in the pool. It is all the other apps I use, by smaller software houses, that are an evolved component of my ecosystem and workflow that I am worried about. I am looking at my old MacAir, which was a super tool at a point in time and glad I do not have to agonise. Also, I have always felt Apple have done a very poor job at the workstation level for the high end, so I expect this area to be last in the queue for attention.
I do hope Apple are successful and will watch with interest.

 

[Paul_DS256]

I have abandoned my Mac laptop in favour of Windows Recently and am really glad I have done that.

And I'm the opposite Gnits. After decades on Windows, I'm switching to MAC after the present disaster of Windows 10 on my 2014 Dell. Before anyone says
"That's to old" my 2009 Macbook is still happily running along. Too many others I know have problems with the W10 upgrade.

I believe in addition to the bloated W10 composition of their OS, they are experiencing more problems with the matrix-of-death which is the certification of the combination of different HW components.

 

[tspear]

@Paul_DS256

You are seeing the result of a few major factors:
1. Apple made the jump back back in the 2003/4 time frame that Microsoft made with Windows 10.
2. Microsoft/Intel/AMD really stepped up the game on HW detailed specs to solve a lot of driver issues in the twenty teens. Only now are consumers are starting to reap that reward.
3. Apple due to complete control of all HW, and staying in the premium market, has been able to effectively implement #2 on their own back in the early 2000s.

Since you were not on Mac back when Apple made the switch, you do not realize how bumpy that switch was. Even with Apple controlling the HW, it was not a pleasant experience.

 

[Gnits]

I do not want to start an Mac Win war. I am happy to see a new entrant in the market. It will be very disruptive for many, including Oem's and the ultimate customers. Hopefully, it will be successful for all.

 

[johnrellis]

It is all the other apps I use, by smaller software houses, that are an evolved component of my ecosystem and workflow that I am worried about. I

I've got several LR plugins and my PSB Quick Look plugin that will have to be rebuilt for the brave new world. All use open-source software that isn't built with Apple's Xcode, and I'm not looking forward to the config/Makefile hell that will surely ensue. With only a couple hundred (very loyal) customers for some of these, I may just end-of-life them.

 

[PhilBurton]

I've got several LR plugins and my PSB Quick Look plugin that will have to be rebuilt for the brave new world. All use open-source software that isn't built with Apple's Xcode, and I'm not looking forward to the config/Makefile hell that will surely ensue. With only a couple hundred (very loyal) customers for some of these, I may just end-of-life them.

Johan,
I have to very respectively disagree that doing a port to an entirely new platform is not a "big problem." I've lived through several such ports of large applications, and they always take much longer than anyone predicted. And Lightroom Classic is certainly a large, complex application. Further, Adobe can't just declare that as of 1 June, 2022, there will be no further releases of Classic on the MacOS running on Intel hardware. So instead of testing each new release on two platforms, they will have to test it on three platforms. For development managers with fixed budgets, that's a big issue all by itself.

And Adobe has a wealth of engineering resources. Consider the smaller developer, such as John. He will also have to release on three platforms. I don't know if John does all the work himself or he works with several others. I have worked in software companies that were big enough to have one or two engineers whose sole focus was "builds," through makefiles and Installshield. John and countless others simply do not have that luxury, yet they have the same engineering and testing challenges.

Since Lightroom's overall value is based on a very rich ecosystem of plug-in and preset authors, just having the core Lightroom application without all those plug-ins and presets really diminishes its value.

Apple needs to tread very carefully here.

Phil Burton

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Phil, I do not see the point in continuing this discussion. We both do not work for Apple or Adobe, so we are not part in this. Let's just wait and see what happens and do something more useful with our time.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

I may just end-of-life them.

Looks like a new version of Rosetta will come out too though, for those apps that don't get ported? I don't quite understand how that works...

 

[tspear]

Phil, I do not see the point in continuing this discussion. We both do not work for Apple or Adobe, so we are not part in this. Let's just wait and see what happens and do something more useful with our time.

Because it can be fun to speculate.
Actually, if Apple does not re-implement the CISC X64 instruction set; I would expect they will include an emulator to run such programs. Historically, most of the emulators handle simple graphical commands, and not the full rich set that has been developed into OpenGL. This will be interesting to watch.

 

[mcasan]

Maybe this thread would be better in the Lounge as it not specific to LrC.

 

[johnrellis]

Looks like a new version of Rosetta will come out too though, for those apps that don't get ported? I don't quite understand how that works...

Rosetta 2 translates a program binary from the Intel hardware instructions to the ARM hardware instructions. It can do it on the fly every time the program executes ("dynamic", "just-in-time") or statically ("one time"), creating a universal application that runs on either platform.

This technology has been around since at least the 1990s and is quite mature, though in the past it hasn't been perfect. Rosetta 1 had lots of restrictions, sometimes caused mysterious behavior, and CPU-intensive apps could take a performance hit. Though Rosetta 2 will surely work well with apps built entirely with Apple's Xcode, it's unknown how much effort Apple will put into making it work well with the large base of Unix-like open software that many cross-platform developers rely on.

Rosetta 2 will help smooth the transition but merely delays the inevitable. Rosetta 1 was available from 10.4.4 through 10.6 and then support was dropped.

 

[PhilBurton]

Phil, I do not see the point in continuing this discussion. We both do not work for Apple or Adobe, so we are not part in this. Let's just wait and see what happens and do something more useful with our time.

Johan,

This discussion is not directly relevant to me and all other Windows users.

But it IS relevant to people who use any system running MacOS, and are considering the purchase of a new desktop or laptop in the next year or so. Personally, if I were in that situation, I would look for clear and specific statements from both Apple and Adobe about their commitment for how many years of continued support for the OS and Lightroom Classic on the current Intel-based Macs, before making any major purchases.

Phil Burton

 

[Johan Elzenga]

This discussion is not directly relevant to me and all other Windows users.

But it IS relevant to people who use any system running MacOS, and are considering the purchase of a new desktop or laptop in the next year or so. Personally, if I were in that situation, I would look for clear and specific statements from both Apple and Adobe about their commitment for how many years of continued support for the OS and Lightroom Classic on the current Intel-based Macs, before making any major purchases.

FUD. You know Adobe will never give a statement like that.

 

[Paul_DS256]

I would look for clear and specific statements from both Apple and Adobe about their commitment for how many years of continued support for the OS and Lightroom Classic on the current Intel-based Macs, before making any major purchases.

Good advice.

 

[PhilBurton]

FUD. You know Adobe will never give a statement like that.

Johan,

This is an extraordinary situation. Platform changes like the one Apple is doing are very unusual, and can be very difficult if not managed well.

I'm NOT trying to spread FUD. I'm raising a very legitimate concern. I have "no dog in this hunt" because I'm a Windows user, but I know lots of people in this forum, people whose respect is important to me, who are MacOS users. I would hate to see someone complain in 2023 that "if they had only known ..." they would have bought an old Intel-based system at a discount price, or that they regret their expensive 2022 purchase of a new Macbook Pro because Adobe is dropping support for new releases in let's say 2024.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

You are spreading FUD and I wonder why you -as a Windows user- think you need to speak on behalf of Mac users in this forum. I'm a Mac user since the Mac Pro with 1 MB RAM and I certainly do not need you to speak for me, thank you very much. This is not that exceptional. First of all, it's the third time that Apple changed processors, and the previous two times went smooth and with no serious problems. And Apple supported old systems for many years. Secondly, it is not really that much different than asking Adobe if Lightroom Classic will still run on your old Windows 7 PC in two years time, on an old iMac that cannot be upgraded beyond High Sierra, or on your old iOS11 device.

So maybe you should leave Mac questions to Mac users. They know how to open their mouths perfectly well. And if they do want an answer right now: My guess is as follows. The MacBook Pro (with the DVD drive and a 320GB or 500GB hard drive) that was launched in 2011/2012 could be upgraded to the new MacOS right up to 2018/2019. Going by the same logic, an Intel based MacBook that you buy today can be expected to receive Apple support for at least 7 years. Whether that means that Lightroom Classic 16 will still run on that hardware (or if Lightroom Classic still exists in seven years from now) I don't know. But expecting/demanding Adobe to make a statement about that is either rather naive, or deliberately spreading FUD. You know they won't do that.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

I'm going to close this thread, because it's entirely speculative and full of opinions. None of us need the stress at the moment. Things will no doubt become clearer as time goes by.