2 copies of an image possible?

[kgilby]

Apologies in advance if this has been answered already, but I haven't found it doing a search - I am just trying to create 2 versions of the same image, i.e., 1 in color and 1 in b&w. How do I get this done? Thanks.

 

[dj_paige]

Select your original image in the Grid view, then right-click on it and choose Create Virtual Copy. You now have two different copies of your image. Go ahead and edit them any way you like.

 

[kgilby]

Denis...

Thanks for that fast reply. When I create a virtual copy, if I have already made changes to the original image in LR, will I be able to then work with the copy and delete individual adjustments that I made to the original before creating the virtual copy?

 

[kgilby]

I meant Paige, not Denis. Sorry...

Sorry Paige.

 

[dj_paige]

Thanks for that fast reply. When I create a virtual copy, if I have already made changes to the original image in LR, will I be able to then work with the copy and delete individual adjustments that I made to the original before creating the virtual copy?

If you have already made adjustments to an image, go into Develop, on the left hand side history panel, click on the bottom item in history (this resets your photo temporarily to its unedited state), then right-click on the image and choose Virtual Copy, and then in the history panel, click on the top item which resets the image to its edited state.

 

[kgilby]

Thanks again Paige

If you have already made adjustments to an image, go into Develop, on the left hand side history panel, click on the bottom item in history (this resets your photo temporarily to its unedited state), then right-click on the image and choose Virtual Copy, and then in the history panel, click on the top item which resets the image to its edited state.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Denis Pagé]

...and choose Create Virtual Copy. You now have two different copies of your image.

I may seem nitpicking but I think it is important not to confuse newbies on this. Whatever the number of virtual copies for an image, you never get a copy of the image. All virtual copies created from an image are working from (and not on) the very same and single original image that was first imported. Think of virtual copies as different views of the same shot or a different receipe with the same ingredients.

 

[dj_paige]

If we're not trying to confuse newbies, please explain how "you never get a copy of the image" ... when in fact, right there in the Grid after you make a Virtual Copy appears to be a copy of the image, clearly identified as a Virtual Copy. I am guessing that you meant that you never get a copy on the hard disk ... but you didn't say that.

And if we're not trying to confuse newbies, words that don't have a clearly defined meaning in Lightroom ("views", "recipe", "ingredients") really throw me off, and I suspect probably throw a lot of people off. In particular, there is no reason why your virtual copy has to have the same ingredients as the non-virtual copy, unless you mean something by "ingredients" that I don't understand.

In summary, I think your clarification needs clarification.

 

[Denis Pagé]

...Virtual Copy appears to be a copy of the image...

As you said: appears
It is a way of viewing the original.

In particular, there is no reason why your virtual copy has to have the same ingredients as the non-virtual copy, unless you mean something by "ingredients" that I don't understand.

Ingredients: What you start with. Hence, the single original image on disk.
Receipe: The virtual copy in itself with all its settings.

In summary, I think your clarification needs clarification.

Better now?

 

[kgilby]

Thanks - both of you.

I did understand that there was not a totally new image file created when using the virtual copy tool.

I also found a way to let me save the time consuming adjustment brush work I had done to an already processed image. I simply created a 'snapshot' of both the adj. brushed version and the version of the image that did not include any adjustment brush changes. Now I can export either one with their individual adjustments, correct?

 

[Denis Pagé]

Yes. This is another way of looking at different versions. Good for a limited set of changes and a little harder to manage (same keywords and image name for all snapshots for example). Only you can judge when it is ok for a snapshot or better with a virtual copy...

EDIT: I for example had a set of 44 images with same treatment that I wanted in both color and in grayscale with a different crop. I started with snapshots but soon realized that it was a chore to select the proper snapshot for exporting at once. For those, I choose to make virtual copies easier to select independently...

 

[dj_paige]

Your snapshot is a way of storing develop settings, so you can easily get back to them. So, it probably meets some of your needs. To export two different snapshots, you export one, select the other one and export that one. It takes two different exports.

On the other hand, Virtual Copies all appear in the Grid, so you can select both, and then do one export.

There are other differences between Snapshots and Virtual Copies as well. Virtual Copies do not have to share some of the same develop steps, while snapshots do have to share some of the same develop steps. Also, your virtual copies are clearly visible and identifiable in the Grid, while there is no way that I know of to find snapshots in the Grid ... you have to remember that you created snapshots for this particular photograph and then access them via the Develop module.

Neither is "better" in the global sense, however, you can pick the method that better suits your particular needs.

 

[kgilby]

In my case, with the image that I had already processed and then applied the adjustment brush alterations to, the snapshot worked out better since I was able to save the changes made with the adj. brush as well as keeping the previous history.
But, in the future I will probably use the virtual copy tool, for the reasons you gave.
Thanks Denis & Paige.

 

[dj_paige]

As you said: appears
It is a way of viewing the original.

Ingredients: What you start with. Hence, the single original image on disk.
Receipe: The virtual copy in itself with all its settings.

Better now?

While I remain uncomfortable with using cooking analogies to describe something in Lightroom, yes, I understand your meaning now.

 

[Denis Pagé]

Your snapshot is a way of storing develop settings, so you can easily get back to them. So, it probably meets some of your needs. To export two different snapshots, you export one, select the other one and export that one. It takes two different exports.

On the other hand, Virtual Copies all appear in the Grid, so you can select both, and then do one export.

There are other differences between Snapshots and Virtual Copies as well. Virtual Copies do not have to share some of the same develop steps, while snapshots do have to share some of the same develop steps.

Neither is "better" in the global sense, however, you can pick the method that better suits your particular needs.

Nicely explained Paige! Seem we were simulposting...

 

[dj_paige]

Nicely explained Paige! Seem we were simulposting...

Well, Pagé and Paige, there really isn't much difference between us is there (other than that "ingredient" thing), is there? And I don't think anyone has actually seen us together, we could be the same person ...

I did go back and add to my explanation of Virtual Copies versus Snapshots: "Also, your virtual copies are clearly visible and identifiable in the Grid, while there is no way that I know of to find snapshots in the Grid ... you have to remember that you created snapshots for this particular photograph and then access them via the Develop module."

 

[Denis Pagé]

Well, Pagé and Paige, there really isn't much difference between us is there (other than that "ingredient" thing), is there? And I don't think anyone has actually seen us together, we could be the same person ...

I did go back and add to my explanation of Virtual Copies versus Snapshots: "Also, your virtual copies are clearly visible and identifiable in the Grid, while there is no way that I know of to find snapshots in the Grid ... you have to remember that you created snapshots for this particular photograph and then access them via the Develop module."

Nice addition similar to what I was simulposting in my edit.

For the names, it comes down to sound:
My first name: The knee
My last name: Pajay (First "a" pronounced as in Attorney, no "d" sound in "j") or... Pagei like in Ageia.

 

[dj_paige]

You would not believe how many times people come up to me in public and ask me if I am “The Knee Pajay”.

Now I understand what they are talking about.

 

[Denis Pagé]

:mrgreen:

 

[Brad Snyder]

I'm not much for text acronyms, but ROFL.....

 

[scorecards]

Am I correct in thinking that the virtual copy is just a way of seeing the original and the changes side by side in the in the library and not have to go to the Develop Module to see the same thing.

 

[dj_paige]

Am I correct in thinking that the virtual copy is just a way of seeing the original and the changes side by side in the in the library and not have to go to the Develop Module to see the same thing.

This is a somewhat limited description of Virtual Copies. Yes, you can use it for that purpose. You can also use it to show multiple edits of the same photo (so you can see edited version 1 and edited version 2 and edited version 3 and so on) side by side in the Library module.

 

[Brad Snyder]

Doug, I'm gonna apolgize and hijack Paige's concise description of the usage of VCs, and add a little tech talk, since your question seems pretty far off the mark .

As you may or may not know, Lr tracks your changes to an image, not by changing the image, but by keeping a record of the way you set the sliders. This is called Parametric Image Adjustment data. This has the advantage of being non-destructive, and the adjustment data set is quite small, compared to the image(~15-2'kB, compared to 8MB+).

As a side benefit, it's a trivial programming exercise to keep more than one set of the Parametric Image Adjustment data for each image. Lr does this in two ways, Snapshots and Virtual Copies. Snapshots represent the state of the image adjustments at a given point in time. They're stored 'within' the original image, and can't be manipulated, just created or deleted. Virtual copies are similar, except they're promoted to 'almost' being a real photo in the catalog. The advantage of this, as Paige says, is that you can apply separate treatments, e.g cropping, b/w vs. color, bright, dark, vignettes, almost anything, experiment to your heart's content, without affecting the preferred treatment, while using a bare minimum of extra storage space.

It's one of the more powerful features of Lr. Picture yourself a wedding photographer, trying to get color and b/w prints out in 4 different sizes and crops. VC's allow you to do this in just a tiny fraction of the disk space, and help organize the effort as well.

 

[dj_paige]

The advantage of this, as Paige says, is that you can apply separate treatments, e.g cropping, b/w vs. color, bright, dark, vignettes, almost anything, experiment to your heart's content, without affecting the preferred treatment, while using a bare minimum of extra storage space.

More than that, you can apply individual keywords or captions to each virtual copy, and then search for these, as if they were "real" photos. So, you want to find only your 8x1's, whether they are virtual or not? No problem. You want to find only those with the B&W keyword, whether they are virtual or not? No problem.

(You know, I think that the virtual copies are "real" photos in the same sense that an edit of your original is a "real" photo ... but I understand why the name Virtual Copy exists)