Newbie questions

[dlydiard]

Lightroom Version Number

Lightroom 6

Operating System

1. Windows 10

* Anyone hear of a class action suit against Adobe for the inability to use facial recognition after the dll expired?
* Am still using LR6 and it grates on my nerves to have to upgrade to LR Classic and pay monthly to be able to use facial recognition. Can anyone tell me whether it is improved over the LR6 version? I have about 15,000 images saved and about 25% have the subjects tagged by FR. Hoping Classic is an improvement in this area?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[clee01l]

* Anyone hear of a class action suit against Adobe for the inability to use facial recognition after the dll expired?
* Am still using LR6 and it grates on my nerves to have to upgrade to LR Classic and pay monthly to be able to use facial recognition. Can anyone tell me whether it is improved over the LR6 version? I have about 15,000 images saved and about 25% have the subjects tagged by FR. Hoping Classic is an improvement in this area?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

These are expectations for trying to run obsolete software long after the company drops support. Every software developer puts a limit on the support for old versions of software. Microsoft, Apple and many others have the same policy.

I’m not a lawyer but any attempt to enjoin in a class action law suite would not even get a hearing before it was tossed out of court. You obviously have never spoken to an attorney or you would already know this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Califdan]

LR is not unique in providing Face recognition functionality. If you're motivated I'm sure doing some Google searching will uncover which do and which don't. However, one factor to consider, above and beyond your willingness to forego all the other things that make Lightroom the far and away leader in this market, is that most (maybe all) other products will not be able to adopt the face recognition work you've already done in LR. Beyond those other tools being able to see a Keyword (tag) for each named face in LR, I suspect you'd have to let those products start looking for faces and do the name assignments all over again. But don't quote me on this. Your call.

On your 2nd question I don't recall any major announcements in the Face recognition tools since it was first released. However, I would not be surprised if many incremental improvements in the AI engine that drives it have found their way into the product. After all, what AI is all about is machine learning and great inroads in that technology have come along since LR face detection was first introduced.

 

[dlydiard]

These are expectations for trying to run obsolete software long after the company drops support. Every software developer puts a limit on the support for old versions of software. Microsoft, Apple and many others have the same policy.

I’m not a lawyer but any attempt to enjoin in a class action law suite would not even get a hearing before it was tossed out of court. You obviously have never spoken to an attorney or you would already know this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think it's safe to say that if I had talked to an attorney I would not have asked here. Thanks for your insight.

 

[dlydiard]

LR is not unique in providing Face recognition functionality. If you're motivated I'm sure doing some Google searching will uncover which do and which don't. However, one factor to consider, above and beyond your willingness to forego all the other things that make Lightroom the far and away leader in this market, is that most (maybe all) other products will not be able to adopt the face recognition work you've already done in LR. Beyond those other tools being able to see a Keyword (tag) for each named face in LR, I suspect you'd have to let those products start looking for faces and do the name assignments all over again. But don't quote me on this. Your call.

On your 2nd question I don't recall any major announcements in the Face recognition tools since it was first released. However, I would not be surprised if many incremental improvements in the AI engine that drives it have found their way into the product. After all, what AI is all about is machine learning and great inroads in that technology have come along since LR face detection was first introduced.

Thanks for that thought about losing what I had already done if I switch. I had not considered that. Would you know if Classic and CC use the same facial recognition? I have put in many, many hours tagging family members going back to the 20's. Guess I'll pay the piper each month.

The reason I asked about a lawsuit is that someone in another forum stated that LR 6 lost it's FR due to a DLL file that they did not create, but leased. And the lease ran out. Their logic was that Adobe sold a one-time perpetual license on a product they new was going to "time out."

Thanks again for the kind answers to a new person here. Cheers~

 

[Conrad Chavez]

* Anyone hear of a class action suit against Adobe for the inability to use facial recognition after the dll expired?

For any software product, not just Lightroom, the ability to file legal action probably needs to have a good legal argument that can defeat the Terms and Conditions first. The Terms Adobe currently uses says:

(9)…the Services and Software are provided “AS-IS.” To the maximum extent permitted by law, we disclaim all warranties, express or implied, including the implied warranties of non-infringement, merchantability, and fitness for a particular purpose. We make no commitments about the content within the Services. We further disclaim any warranty that (A) the Services or Software will meet your requirements or will be constantly available, uninterrupted, timely, secure, or error-free; (B) the results obtained from the use of the Services or Software will be effective, accurate, or reliable; (C) the quality of the Services or Software will meet your expectations; or (D) any errors or defects in the Services or Software will be corrected.…

10.1 Unless stated in the Additional Terms, we are not liable to you or anyone else for any…damages whatsoever, regardless of cause…

(this part actually appears at the top) THE MANDATORY ARBITRATION PROVISION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN SECTION 14 (DISPUTE RESOLUTION) BELOW GOVERN THE RESOLUTION OF DISPUTES. PLEASE READ THEM CAREFULLY. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THE MANDATORY ARBITRATION PROVISION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THE TERMS, PLEASE DO NOT USE THE SERVICES OR SOFTWARE.

14.3 No Class Actions. You may only resolve disputes with us on an individual basis, and you may not bring a claim as a plaintiff or a class member in a class, consolidated, or representative action.

I’m not taking a stand on this either way, just noting that the language above is legal obstacle #1, and especially section 14 (expand the quoted text to see). By using the software we have agreed to the terms, if we do not agree we are supposed to stop using the software.

(Disclamer: I am not a lawyer. And the terms that applied to Lightroom 6 might be different and easier to legally overcome, I have no idea.)

 

[dlydiard]

For any software product, not just Lightroom, the ability to file legal action probably needs to have a good legal argument that can defeat the Terms and Conditions first. The Terms Adobe currently uses says:



I’m not taking a stand on this either way, just noting that the language above is legal obstacle #1, and especially section 14 (expand the quoted text to see). By using the software we have agreed to the terms, if we do not agree we are supposed to stop using the software.

(Disclamer: I am not a lawyer. And the terms that applied to Lightroom 6 might be different and easier to legally overcome, I have no idea.)

Pretty much a perfect CYA document. Thankfully, TOA docs don't deception. (Just because they something is so, doesn't mean that it is) Selling a product as a one-time license or perpetual license, knowing that they did not control all aspects of it (DLL files that expire) is fraud. But, I'm not an attorney either and could not afford to bring action. Just aggravates the hell out of me. LOL

Thanks for explaining the disclaimer.

 

[Califdan]

I know that keyword sync between LR/Classic and LR/Cloudy is a one time one way (classic to cloudy) proposition. I also know that when "name" a face it becomes a keyword. So, if you first sync such a photo after the face has been identified in Classic I'm pretty sure that the keyword representing the named face will migrate to the LR/Cloud ecosystem (one time). I don't know if it will retain it's "region in images" for that face though. I'm also pretty sure that face recognition done in LR/Cloudy will not come back to LR/Classic or that any subsequent keyword or face recognition done in Classic will not propagate to LR/Cloudy.

Yes, it is an abysmal stance that Adobe has taken to ignore this profound omission in their sync technology. Yes, there are many people complaining about it. Here's a link to Adobe feedback forum on this larger topic. You may want to add your vote.
https://feedback.photoshop.com/conv...-lightroom-ecosystem/5f5f45db4b561a3d426379c4

 

[LexS]

I heard that Facerecognizion in LR6 is a non-adobe part in the software. This "application" does not run anymore now. Adobe is not respnsible after they stopped support. The original programmer also stopped it lately. No way to get it back.

 

[Califdan]

That doesn't sound right. However, it is possible that Adobe Licensed the underlying technology from some other company and that agreement has expired. This is what happened with the earlier versions of the Map Module that Adobe licensed from Google, but then Google decided to change their mode of operation breaking the Map Module in LR until Adobe re did the interface with Google and entered into a new agreement with them.

The bottom line though is that if it works, great - but if it doesn't you're SOL once the version you're using goes off of support.

 

[LexS]

"Adobe Licensed the underlying technology from some other company and that agreement has expired".
Indeed.

 

[Califdan]

That is a possibility. I don't have any inside information about the face recognition components. I do know that LR's Face Recognition is currently functional in all supported versions but whether it is home grown technology or licensed technology I can't say.

However, I do know that Google change things and the mapping function on almost all applications that relied on Google Maps, including Lightroom, stopped working suddenly. Most such applications from smaller developers just stayed broken and according to some who made statements what had been a free service from Google now required a rather costly license which they could not afford. Bigger outfits like Adobe accommodated Googles new licensing requirements and got their products working again.

 

[Zenon]

Sorry for going off topic but here is an example. I'd like to see a class action suite against DXO but it will never happen. I paid for PL3 in Nov of 2019. The Canon R5 came out in August of 2020. DXO did not update RAW support until November of 2020 so it was completely unusable. I would have had to pay for PL4 in November. You would think a person would at least get a year from software. DXO will never see another dime of my money.

LR6 had the last update December of 2017 and has since been unsupported.

 

[LexS]

That is a possibility.

No it is reality, it has been in this forum already some time ago.