Editing with calibrated monitor: aRGB vs sRGB

[thegios]

Lightroom Version Number

Lightroom Classic 10.4

Operating System

1. Windows 10

I have an hardware calibrated monitor and I can switch between two custom calibration: 1.aRGB and 2.sRGB.

I know that I should edit on sRGB if picture is published online and on aRGB if picture is to be printed.
But what if I need to both print and publish online a picture?

If I am on aRGB and edit the photo, when published online it will look muted.
If I am on sRGB and edit the photo, when printed it will look over saturated.

As a matter of fact, all my old pictures that I edited on my old sRGB monitor will look extremely oversaturated when viewed on my new monitor set on aRGB.
On the contrary, all my new pictures that I edited on my new aRGB monitor will look extremely oversaturated when viewed either on my old aRGB monitor or on my new aRGB monitor set on sRGB.

Maybe I'm misisng something?

 

[Johan Elzenga]

What you miss is color management in your browser and color profiles embedded in your image. When you place an image online, you must convert it to sRGB. The main reason for that is because you do not know what your audience is using. If you knew that your entire audience would use Apple Safari for example, then using AdobeRGB would be fine, as long as the images are tagged with a color profile. That is because Safari is color managed. Lightroom works with its own color space in the develop module, which is even bigger than AdobeRGB and with AdobeRGB in the other modules, so it makes sense to use your monitor at its native (i.e. biggest) color space. When you need to export an image for the web, then just make sure you choose sRGB in the export dialog. If necessary, you can soft proof to sRGB when you edit.

 

[thegios]

But if I calibrate my monitor for it's native color space, when exporting to jpg as sRGB will not the picture still look muted when viewed via Chrome on a cheap monitor?

 

[clee01l]

Yes, you are missing something.
You are confusing print characteristics (reflected media) with Screen characteristics (Tranmissive media)
If you are viewing an image on your screen you want to apply a screen profile that will permit you to view the image best ON YOUR Screen. It is best that you get a colorimeter and calibrate your monitor for your viewing environment. If you have more than one monitor you would need a unique color profile for each monitor.

Many modern screen displays can display colors approaching and even exceeding the Adobe RGB envelop.

When editing yo view the image and adjust based upon the color profile tuned for your monitor. When you export, you will assign the generic sRGB color profile for files that others will be viewing on their probably uncalibrated equipment. The Generic default profile is sRGB since this is the minimum standard for ALL monitors and you have no control over how others will view your image.

If you are going to print an image, the exported file should be assigned a color profile that matches the characteristics of your Printer and paper. Often print vendors will supply icc color profiles for their paper and equipment. Thes should be assigned to the exported file.

You can emulate the print characteristics on your monitor by using the Soft Proofing feature in Lightroom Develop.

Lightroom used a working color profile (ProPhotoRGB) that has a larger envelop than Adobe RGB. This is so that no colors get truncated during computations. It is during export that you need to assign a color profile to restrict the color data to the type of media that will use it.

sRGB will be predictable and OK when viewed on Chrome with a generic monitor. But that is not in your control.


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[thegios]

Yes, you are missing something.
You are confusing print characteristics (reflected media) with Screen characteristics (Tranmissive media)

No I'm not, I know this, that why I wrote "I should edit on sRGB if picture is published online and on aRGB if picture is to be printed".

If you are viewing an image on your screen you want to apply a screen profile that will permit you to view the image best ON YOUR Screen. It is best that you get a colorimeter and calibrate your monitor for your viewing environment. If you have more than one monitor you would need a unique color profile for each monitor.

My new monitor is indeed calibrated via a colorimeter. I have Two calibration profiles: one for aRGB color space and one for sRGB color space. I can switch easily between the two by pressing a button.

Many modern screen displays can display colors approaching and even exceeding the Adobe RGB envelop.

When editing yo view the image and adjust based upon the color profile tuned for your monitor.

So I should select the aRGB color profile on my monitor, which is the widest.

When you export, you will assign the generic sRGB color profile for files that others will be viewing on their probably uncalibrated equipment. The Generic default profile is sRGB since this is the minimum standard for ALL monitors and you have no control over how others will view your image.

That's what I do. But I'm doing so, won't the image look on someone's cheap monitor more muted and less saturated that what I see on my monitor?

 

[clee01l]

No I'm not, I know this, that why I wrote "I should edit on sRGB if picture is published online and on aRGB if picture is to be printed".

My new monitor is indeed calibrated via a colorimeter. I have Two calibration profiles: one for aRGB color space and one for sRGB color space. I can switch easily between the two by pressing a button.

So I should select the aRGB color profile on my monitor, which is the widest.

That's what I do. But I'm doing so, won't the image look on someone's cheap monitor more muted and less saturated that what I see on my monitor?

It risks looking worse to use a color profile that permits colors outside of the capabilities of the monitor used for viewing. Generic sRGB gives the most acceptable rendering on all monitors and all apps used.


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[thegios]

It risks looking worse to use a color profile that permits colors outside of the capabilities of the monitor used for viewing. Generic sRGB gives the most acceptable rendering on all monitors and all apps used.


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Yes I know, I once by mistake exported to jpg using aRGB profile and from Chrome it looked terrible.

 

[thegios]

So, if I understand correctly, I should
1. Calibrate the monitor for it's original color space
2. Edit in Lightroom for what I see on the screen
3. Soft proof chosing the output device profile (sRGB in case of online publishing to match the lowest and cheapest monitor, or the specific printer color profile provided by the print shop). When soft proofing I may need to make adjustments to the soft proof copy in order to match the original.
4. Export the soft proof copy to jpg using the same profile used for soft proofing.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Yes. There are limits to what you can do to make an image look good on somebody else’s screen, if you do not know that person and do not know the hardware and software they are using. These are those limits. Soft proof to sRGB to see what the image will look like on a calibrated screen. Then export as sRGB and hope the other person’s screen is not too bad.

 

[thegios]

So... I have a BenQ SW270C

www.benq.eu/it-it/monitor/photographer/sw270c/specifications.html

Advertised as wide gamut with Adobe RGB 99%, sRGB 100% and DCI-P3 at 95%. It also has hw calibration, so the calibration profiles are stored directly in the monitor and I can switch between them with a button. I use Palette Master Elements as sw and I have a compatible probe (can't remember the brand).

The monitor comes with some factory calibrations (aRGB, sRGB, b / w, DCI-P3 etc.) but I have created three customized by my own (the maximum available) using the sw and the probe:
1. With Adobe RGB color space (I use it when editing in Lightroom)
2. With sRGB color space (I use it for work, otherwise with 1 on Windows the colors are too saturated)
3. With native color space (in theory I never use it)

Obviously I shoot in raw and yes in LR I use prophoto as a color space.

99% of my photos are for online but there is a 1% that I would like to start printing in a professional print studio.

From what you tell me I should set the monitor on calibration profile 3. Native and edit the photo on the screen as I would like it on MY screen.

Then before exporting it I should go to soft proof and make a copy for export on screen and one for export to print.

For the screen copy I choose the sRGB profile already included and if necessary I make the necessary adjustments and then export in jpg with sRGB profile.

For the printed copy, after installing the lab profile, I choose the latter, also I make the necessary adjustments and then export the photo in tiff (do I have to include the color space of the lab?)

The calibration profile 1. Adobe RGB I am not supposed to use it, since the 3. Native is better.

The calibration profile 2. sRGB I will use only for work, to avoid too bright and saturated colors.

 

[clee01l]

I like everything that you wrote. Except I do not understand why you need to switch the monitor color profile to sRGB for work. I have an iMac with a DCI-P3 capable monitor. I use a colorimeter and build my own color profile. The color profile is set at boot up and stays that way for all of the work that I do on the computer.

My colorimeter detects changes in ambient light and adjust the monitor to compensate.

For exported files you set the color profile when the file is created. This will insure that no pixels will have a color value that falls outside of the envelop of the color profile defined in the file header.

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[thegios]

It seems that Windows GUI is not color managed so look over saturated on wide gamut monitor. By setting the monitor to sRGB profile, Windows 10 GUI are muted down and look better.

 

[thegios]

For example I use fast raw viewer to cull raw files.
The main Windows of FRV is colour managed while the images strip at the bottom is not, so I see all previews in the strip over saturated, but the selected one on the main window looks perfect (which means with flat colours and no sharpening applied).

 

[clee01l]

It seems that Windows GUI is not color managed so look over saturated on wide gamut monitor. By setting the monitor to sRGB profile, Windows 10 GUI are muted down and look better.

It is not the Windows GUI that is not color managed, it is the app that you are using. Last I looked, there were only 1-2 browsers that were color managed. There may be more now, but often the default setting is unmanaged.


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[Linwood Ferguson]

Here's an interesting page that will do some tests of your browser to see how well it does color management.

Web browser color management test